A commenter on my blog informed me that atheism is only growing because it is the popular thing to do right now. Seriously?
Over seventy-five percent of people in America are professed Christians. Atheism or Agnosticism is hardly a popular choice for anyone, especially for those living in the southern Bible Belt. Christians in America claiming to be persecuted need a reality check. This is exactly why I’ve continued to be a closet atheist and why I blog under a pseudonym.
An interesting thing has happened in the past year since I’ve walked away from my faith; nobody has noticed any change in me. Shouldn’t I have grown horns, started cheating on my wife and engaged in other evil activities? I am the exact same person I was as a Christian. I just believe in one less god than I used to. I still help others whenever I can and actively volunteer at a homeless shelter and other charitable organizations.
I would love to be honest about it, but I have so many close friends who are Christians. I would rather not damage the relationships I have with them.
It’s sad. Somehow I became an evil person in the eyes of a Christian the day I stop believing in god.
Tags: Agnostic, Alone, Atheist, Belief, Bible, Choice, Christian, Jesus, Majority, Minority, Ostracized, Persecuted, Persecution, Popular, Skeptic
May 14, 2009 at 11:34 am |
Assalamualaikum
What would happen if people knew you were an atheist?
Well, anyways a lot of the people who are ‘searching for an answer’ about religon, life etc. do come to Islam, after actually researching about is and reading the Quran. Not just by hearsay.
I’ve seen other thing like this too on the internet. Stuff about there being a rise in athiests. But at the same time, Islam has become the fastest growing religion, thats right isnt it? Christainity still the most followed, then Islam. Also there was this brother who made a video about a Shiekhs father who 45 yrs ago did the 1st eid salah in texas including the imam was just 3 ppl! 45 years later in 2008, he did the Eid khutbah and mashallah! there were over 30,000 Muslims there! Wow, Subhanallah!!
i DON’T GET WHY BECOMING ATHIEST WOULD BE POPULAR LOL.
May 14, 2009 at 12:08 pm |
Mmmm . . . Islam. Why didn’t I think of that? Think of all of the virgins that would be waiting for me in heaven.
Seriously, you can save yourself some time with your attempt to evangelize here for Mohammed. The Muslim faith is even more ludicrous than Christianity.
May 14, 2009 at 1:25 pm |
Hal,
and peace be upon you
While the basics principles of Islam are far more beautiful than in Christianty in practice they are not. I have read the Bible, I have read the Quran. The same conclusion applies to both books. They are false and written by the hands and minds of men.
I charge you with the same (seemingly unsurmountable task) as I charge christians. If your prophet, your God and your holy book are true. Provide proof of such truth. Until you can provide tangible evidence of the validaty of your belief system you will fail in any attempt to convert me, and dare I say any other free thinker as well.
I don’t believe this post was a cry for a true path. Only an admission of the difficulty the BEattitude has encountered since discovering and accepting the truth about all faith systems and setting out on his own path consisting of truth and rational thinking.
May 14, 2009 at 2:30 pm |
Walaikumassalam
What do you mean by in practice they aren’t?…..actually i think i’ll say the rest on your blog.Seeing as not much people on this blog wanna learn the truth.
May 14, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Practice?
Well for starters there is one of the most hideous acts known to mankind today. Female circumcision. Then there is the looooooong list of womens rights issues beyond that associated with Islam. the killing and calls to killing of infidels. The extremely opressive islamic governments… shall I go on? Islam is now where Christianity was in the 1300′s.
Don’t mistake my appreciation for some of the finer aspects of Islam such as the daily prayers, traditional greetings and the way the Quroan rolls off the tounge in Arabic as anything that resembles a window of acceptance of its teachings. When it is all reviewed, tested and evaluated it is mumbo jumbo just like Christianity.
May 14, 2009 at 3:04 pm
For those interested in seeing the innocent children damaged by this hideous ceremony:
Take a look at my post on the subject.
May 15, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Assalamualaikum
these were the practices of ‘so called muslims’
they shouldn’t have been done in the name off any religion.
Actual Islam is peaceful.
The thing i’m trying to teach you guys about is how most normal Muslims are yeah?
We pray 5 times a day. Now i find it hard to imagine that terrorists pray 5 times a day when they’re busy killing people.
We do the Islam that is taught. Pray 5 times a day, fast during Ramada, go Hajj, give charity etc.
June 5, 2009 at 7:24 pm
Angry Philistine. I agree.
May 14, 2009 at 2:26 pm |
Assalamualaikum
LOL, if you ever do become Muslim, you’ll realise what kind of misconeptions you had about iSLAM. LOL! More ludicrous than Chritianity? Please!! That’s another thing. Soemone said on your blog about they don’t respect Islam. Well Muslims respect everybody. No matter what race/religion.
Peace
May 14, 2009 at 2:37 pm |
Are you kidding me? Muslims respect everyone? That’s why some fanatics are practicing a jihad against everyone that isn’t Muslim. Yeah, it’s so much better.
May 14, 2009 at 2:42 pm |
Which version of Islam do I have misconceptions about? The versions you preach or the version that promotes killing everyone else.
And why any woman would want to be a Muslim is beyond me. At least most Christians and Jews have enough sense to no longer practice the horrible oppression of women from the Old Testament.
May 15, 2009 at 12:58 pm |
Assalamualaikum both of you.
Like you said its ‘some fanatics’ they are just ‘so called muslims’ not practicing the real islam.
no religion preaches hate
the people of the religion though might do.
But actual Muslims, proper Islam yeah we have to respect all.
Islam doesn’t promote killing of others.
women aren’t oppressed in Islam, they are actually more respected.
So…it’s fine for girls to sleep around and dress in mini-skirts, but when they don’t have sexual relations before marriage and are covered they are oppressed???Riiiight??
June 5, 2009 at 10:48 am |
When they don’t get the choice between wearing mini skirts and being covered they are oppressed. They should be able to make any choices that a boy could, including their manner of dress and level of sexual activity. Besides, as I’m sure you’re aware, the choice is not either total covering of the body and mini-skirts. There’s a whole range in between.
June 5, 2009 at 10:58 am |
I agree Alyssa, why the bloody hell SHOULDN`T girls “sleep around and dress in mini-skirts” if they want to? It`s their life, so it`s their choice! These bigots just betray their true beliefs when they start trying to defend their misogynistic, patriarchal, primitive belief system!!
June 5, 2009 at 7:03 pm |
Women have been blamed as the temptress since Adam and Eve. The unspoken thought is – if a woman dresses seductively, she deserves what she gets.
And speaking of the horrors of religion and oppression of women. I just came across a story where a young Muslim girl was raped by three men. She reported the cimes, and then was charged herself with adultery. She was sentenced to death by stoning. This 13-YEAR-OLD CHILD was buried in the ground up to her neck, and stoned to death.
This made me so sick, and has been bothering me for days. Religion almost universally hates women. I guess I’m wondering “why can’t we all just get along???”
June 5, 2009 at 7:17 pm |
Here’s a link to that story about the young girl stoned to death. This is not an isolated incident. There is rape, torture and murder of women ALL THE TIME, condoned by Islamic theocracies. Any Muslim (or christian for that matter – I’m not trying to single out Islam, except for how extreme they tend to be) who says that their religion respects women has been living under a rock.
June 5, 2009 at 7:17 pm |
Sorry – I mean HERE’S the link:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27484976/
May 14, 2009 at 12:08 pm |
Maybe the law that allows 4 wives might have something to do with the population increase. Also, in poorer countries like ,say, Afghanistan, which I think is an all-muslim country, people reproduce more thinking that they will get extra “working-hands” and it will bring more money.
P.S. Stop looking up atheists sites to try to convert; I don’t do that.
May 14, 2009 at 2:23 pm |
Assalamualaikum
actually i wasnt looking for an atheist website, just happened to come across it. I can express my views here, just like anyone else. I’m not saying anything wrong. I’m actually tryig to benefit all you guys.
About the wives thing i don’t think i know any Muslim guy personally who has more than 1 wife actually. Plus, if tehy do it’s not as simple as ppl think it is. There’s things like, you have to provide a house for each of your wives, i think same amount of money and a lot of other things.
Yeah places like Afghan, Pakistan,Bangladesh etc. my my fmilies from near there. They do have more children yes. But they have a different way of living there. like you said about the working hands etc.
They’re poor right. I’ve been there. I live in England. we have everything here. Over there, you’re lucky if you have electricity for the whole day. In the summer hold when i’ve been, the electricity goes off and its boiling so you need fans but u cant use ‘em. Well at least there, they have proper families. Muslims aren’t allowed to sleep around. We can’t have relationships before marriage.
June 5, 2009 at 10:52 am |
By all means, define “proper families”
June 5, 2009 at 11:04 am
He means where the men are in total control, and the women have no rights, Alyssa! Many fundamentalist Christians have the same primitive idea!!
May 14, 2009 at 12:14 pm |
Excellent image!
What it feels like to be an atheist – essay from Stephen Darksyde.
May 14, 2009 at 12:35 pm |
Nice post. What kind of dumbass do you have to be to say that atheism is popular? That commentator is a complete idiot. I refuse to hide and as a consequence have lost friends, jobs, and alienated some family members. I have no regrets.
Atheism isn’t the easy road, it’s the hard road. We’re growing in numbers, but not quickly enough. I don’t know how atheists in the south stay alive once they come out of the closet. The California central valley is sometimes called the California bible belt because of it’s far right religious leaning; I lived there and when my atheism was brought up I had people threaten me sometimes. And that was in California!
May 14, 2009 at 1:19 pm |
I’ve added a bit of my own story and insight to this short blog post.
It is always good to read how others have experienced this decision. Your story has only confirmed my choice to stay in the closet for while longer.
May 14, 2009 at 1:31 pm |
Yeah, no one notices until you bring it up. Then everything will change.
I have found plenty of support once I made the leap. Some Christian friends are still my friends and we just stay away from that topic. I’ve also found support groups and meetup groups through yahoo.com for atheists. Also, once I came out publicly, I had people that I’d known for years come and tell me secretly that they feel the same way but are scared to tell anyone. Once you do step out of the closet, you may find a few friends feel the exact same way you do.
May 14, 2009 at 1:22 pm |
Here is a link to one of my all-time favorite pieces on what life as an atheist is like (I just wish I had written it): http://www.unscrewingtheinscrutable.com//node/363?q=log/node/363&q=node/363
May 14, 2009 at 1:28 pm |
Here’s the new address (that one was screwed up when I changed domain names a few years ago. It works, but it ain’t pretty!):
http://www.unscrewingtheinscrutable.com/content/what-it-feels-be-atheist
May 14, 2009 at 2:48 pm |
Maybe you just need to move somewhere else and get a different perspective on the world.
May 14, 2009 at 3:01 pm |
My perspective is fine. It’s the people around me I’m worried about. My actions should define me, not my spiritual beliefs.
Although I am considering moving out to the Portland area. Only because I love it out there.
May 14, 2009 at 3:36 pm |
Well, yeah, I’m worried about them too. It seems like you’ve encountered many Christians who don’t think through things, so much so that you don’t really think that any Christians think through things. No one should really blame you for that.
But man, if you read that link Brent Rasmussen sent, you’d think atheism was almost entirely just a reaction to Christian culture. And that’s the impression I get from reading you’re blog as well.
Christian culture in America has a lot of problems, but there are pockets of Christians in America who are more intellectually open minded than others. There are Christians who believe it is okay, and in fact vitally important, to seriously consider whether God really does exist, and to not believe anything on blind faith. And yet, some Christians after seriously questioning Christianity, find that it really is true.
May 14, 2009 at 4:02 pm |
Atheism by definition is not a reaction to Christian culture. Atheism is simply lack of belief in any god, deity or supreme dude in the sky.
But yes, part of the motivation for my blog is a reaction to Christian culture. I’m extremely tired of religious hypocrites justifying hate under the veil of Christianity. But my main purpose for the blog is to ask questions for discussion pertaining to religion, science and sometimes stuff that just made me laugh.
Your thoughts are always welcome whether you agree with me or not. A discussion is worthless if everyone agrees with me.
May 14, 2009 at 5:43 pm |
I think one thing that we need to do as responsible atheists is use our belief, or lack thereof, for good and not evil. What I mean by this is that in attacking religions, we are only doing what people of faith do, and for me this is one of the biggest reasons I am an atheist. I do not care what anyone believes, as long as they do not practice around me and push their beliefs on me.
How do you live as an atheist? You know when to shut your mouth. Now I am “out”, and no one really cares (perhaps my father a bit, but being a Christian, he thinks that my mistaken belief will be forgiven when I die, and I will go to heaven anyway). I simply do not talk about my religion with others. If being religious makes people feel better, then by all means, believe. Just because the athiests do not have a “thing”, such as a book, ceremony, place of non-worship, does not mean that other’s cannot fool themselves in believing this will help. I was fortunate enough to marry an athiest, and we joke about religion together, but I let sleeping dogs lie with others. My beliefs do not need to be out there for everyone to see, just as I would rather not hear of other’s beliefs.
May 15, 2009 at 5:56 am |
Atheism, agnosticism, Deism, and in general what can be called the secular religion, is the popular thing not among the common people but among the snobbish intellectual elites and the superficial majority of the academic world. This statement is true for most of the world including the U.S. first and foremost. Therefore, those who want to look smarter and don’t care much about choosing the right path can easily convert to what I term the secular religion.
In contrast to what they want to believe, many academics and members of the intellectual elites are usually as ignorant about the things on which they have firm opinions as are the common people that they despise. As a member and close observer of that world, I can tell you this with confidence.
Mr. BEattitude’s cliché-based remarks on Islam above confirm all that I’ve just written here.
May 15, 2009 at 7:30 am |
Just came upon your post from the main page of wordpress…
I don’t know much to say. I guess I could ask you to start a running dialogue concerning your departure from faith in Christ, but that would be up to you. I only made it through about 10% of the comments before I realized there was too many things to reply to. You know how you get that feeling that you want to answer somebody, but then you see that it would take writing a book to cover everything?
I guess your post just caught my curiosity, but I’d really like to know…What made you abandon your faith in Christ? I can imagine that doing such a thing, while ‘all’ your friends are Christians, would be difficult. I’m a Christian, and you won’t disappoint me by telling me your reasoning. So, please, I really want to know what pulled you away.
Also, let me know what you think about my reply to your question, “Shouldn’t I have grown horns, started cheating on my wife and engaged in other evil activities?” The answer to this is “absolutely not”. To use your figure of speech, everyone, including the religious of the world, “have horns”. We are ALL complete failures before a holy God, and we will remain that way until we leave this world. There is a difference, however, between a non-believer and believer in Jesus Christ. I’d be happy to talk about that if you’re up for it. Hope to hear from you.
J
May 15, 2009 at 8:18 am |
I’m planning to do a post on the abandonment of my faith in the next few days. I talk a bit about it in the “About Me” page on this blog.
As of a couple years ago, I would not have imagined doing such a thing either. The change happened over time and hit a point where I could no longer lie to myself and pretend to believe it anymore.
I’m not new to Christianity, so I’ve heard the “Jesus at work within me” teaching more than a few times. Honest Christians like yourself know they no different than anyone else. The only thing that separates you and I is faith in something we can’t see, hear or perceive in any way.
I’ll talk more in depth in the coming blog post.
May 15, 2009 at 8:54 am |
I was leaning to Atheism for years and had long ago given up on organized religion. But, I cannot tell most of the people I know. It’s sad to feel like I will be persecuted for how I believe.
May 15, 2009 at 9:05 am |
I’ve not read the pile of comments here. I just read your blog entry. I just wanted to put two cents in as a Christian. Before you stop reading…I’m not going to tell you that you are evil for being an atheist. I spent about 15 years as an atheist myself. And I understand where you are. It is a hard place to be. You want to be honest, but you want to save relationships. It’s a rough spot to be in. I hope that you find a good place to be with it.
Of course, I do hope that at the end of your searching for Truth, you arrive back at the Truth of Christianity. Not the truth of any political faction of the organized church…but at the Truth of Christ himself. The difference is night and day. You talk about how your morality is no different now that you are an atheist. That is a reason you give for the untruth of Christianity. But Christ does not teach a method of moral improvement. That is what “religion” teaches. Christ teaches “love God, love each other.”
You are correct in your last post here that honest Christians know that they are no different than anyone else. Anything that I have is only mine because it is a gift. The same goes for Atheists, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, etc. I will, however, differ with you one one integral point. You say that the only thing that separates us is faith in something we can’t see, hear, or perceive in any way. I would argue that we can’t see God, or hear God…but perception is a wholly different story. In the same way that I cannot see, or measure my love for my son or my wife. I can see the results of it, but still that is no proof. The proof is in the experience of the direct perception of it.
Okay, I’ve written more than I intended to. With your permission I’d like to bookmark your page and follow this conversation. You sound like you have a good heart, and have not yet closed your mind off on the subject. May I continue in conversation with you?
Love,
-Andrew
May 15, 2009 at 9:23 am |
You’re more than welcome to post here any time. This is not a militant religious hate blog. You can also subscribe to the RSS feed through the link on top right of the homepage.
Much of what I blog about is offensive to Christians because I ask challenging questions about their faith. My intention is not to attack Christians or evangelize on behalf of atheists. I only question the foundation of their beliefs for purpose of discussion.
I am very intolerant of the bigotry and hypocrisy of some religious people and frequently point it out here. That is often perceived as an attack on all Christians. This is far from my intention.
I know many wonderful Christian people, including my wife. If religion inspires people to be selfless and help others, great. Some people need the hope that religion provides to get through difficult things in life. There is nothing harmful about that. I just simply do not believe the Bible’s claims and do not require blind faith to find fulfillment in my life.
May 15, 2009 at 9:36 am |
Thank you. I will keep you on my list of blogs I read. I’ll tell you something Madalyn Murray O’Hair said. She said, “I’ll tell you why [Christians] are afraid of me. It’s because they aren’t sure of what they believe.” and she was right.
I appreciate your honesty and your search for the Truth. For many people religion is a happy delusion. Like you say, it provides hope to get through difficult things in life. I read your “about me” part, and I realize you are not an “Atheist” per se. So, I feel a bit more comfortable saying that all “faiths” can be that sort of happy delusion…even the Atheist faith. People get angry and offended when you challenge something they want to believe with their mind but can’t hold onto with their heart (or vice versa). A Christianity that does not involve the mind *and* the heart equally is superstition and “religion”, not the Gospel.
But there are some out there who have looked these hard questions and doubts squarely in the eye and come down on the side of Christ. I don’t claim to know it all. I don’t even claim that there aren’t things about the Bible that bug me. As Paul Tillich said, “Doubt is not the opposite of faith, it is one aspect of it.”
I am looking forward to getting to know you better.
Love,
-Andrew
May 15, 2009 at 9:10 am |
This is where I post the oh so traditional ‘If they don’t respect your beliefs they don’t respect you’ bit.
I have a sense of what you are going through. While I am not athiest I do not believe in the church. I guess you could classify me as Agnostic, but I was raised in a strictly christian environment. Several churches around me and everyone I knew went to church twice a week. It wasn’t until the around the time I was getting married to my wife that I made the decisions about faith and christianity that I have, but I did not keep it from anyone. I am very vocal about my beliefs, and it did cause alot of strife with my soon to be family and some of my friends. At one point my mother in law even told me to my face that I was going to hell. I held through though. Since then most have come to respect my beliefs. My in-laws no longer try and reconvert me. My friends don’t push me towards church anymore. A few have broken away, but the actions they took during that time made it clear that they were not people I had any interest in being involved with.
The moral of this whole thing is that you believe what you do. You can’t let fear of others control who you are.
May 15, 2009 at 9:29 am |
I don’t fear others control. I mostly want to avoid unnecessarily damaging relationships. I have some very passionate Christian friends that would absolutely freak out if they knew. They would never look at me the same again.
May 15, 2009 at 9:12 am |
I do not know if I understood correctly your articolo.Perchè? Why a person who said that he was no believer believes in God? Let me tell you dear friend: you do the confession? If not it should make it! But you want to say something else. If we look into the past of our life, and try to remember what we remember most? I do not know you but I want to tell you my experience. I do not want here to recall all my past life would be too long to scrivere.Anch ‘I was and am going through difficult times, but looking back, and this happened to me today that I read your article, which among all the things Remember there are those times, (not ever forget!), we have heard the call of God in your Watch past and see if you can not remember exactly! What we’re experiencing is the silence of God
May 15, 2009 at 9:13 am |
Completely disconnected comment… judging from all the posts here, it would seem that, interestingly, people with religion have a strong and kinda irritating leaning towards capitalising important words!
June 5, 2009 at 11:08 am |
WHAT are you TALKING about, mysterycreature1? I don`t BELIEVE you!!
June 5, 2009 at 7:32 pm |
Actually, I’m atheist but I plead guilty to putting important words in caps. Is this annoying to everyone???
May 15, 2009 at 9:17 am |
Love that I came across this blog. I’ve been contemplating the finiteness of existence and where faith is headed in the future. I know a lot of people with religious affiliations -Jewish, Christian, Muslim- bust most will attest to living a life they think is morally right, not one that is dictated to them a religious doctrine or tradition. In fact, I don’t know many people who go to church|temple|synagogue anymore, or reflect on God for that matter, with the exception being when things go wrong.
Religion amongst the people I know boils down to a belief in a higher power and a heaven that awaits them. Basically because it’s comforting to believe that loved ones who’ve passed away are wait for them in heaven while those that do wrong in this world and seemingly live without judgment will eventually be served theirs in hell.
Whether atheism or agnosticism comprise a small percentage of humanity overall, it is still a percentage that has grown exponentially in the last 100 years/
I think the reason why you feel isolated when you tell people you don’t believe in a God is because that’s the feeling that athiesm provokes – loneliness, isolation, the end of all endings.
I don’t have faith in God either but when I think about how I’ll eventually have to see my loved ones leave me forever and then take my place amongst them, I’d give anything to have the belief that we’d someday be joined again in a world even better than this one.
May 15, 2009 at 9:36 am |
Atheism has not left me feeling lonely. I’m actually relieved to no longer believe in an afterlife. I appreciate every day and search to find joy in every experience.
A lonely life is spending countless hours alone in prayer to a god that doesn’t answer and spending days in fear of the unknown. I’m fine with the unknown. It’s more exiting to discover things as we go rather than believing all of the answers are in an archaic book.
May 15, 2009 at 9:24 am |
Too bad the so-called biggest democracy prevents its citizens to be openely atheists.here in France things are diffrent,at least among christians.
Churches are empty most of the time, people don’t give a sh.. if you believe or not,it’s a private matter. Yet,my familly is a muslim familly and I had to fight hard but everybody knows i’m an atheist and never ever hid it. I’m a free man and will never let them make me follow their crap.
May 16, 2009 at 12:33 am |
Please don’t confuse social pressure in the United States with our laws. We actually have fairly strong laws regarding the separation of church and state, our equivilent of la laïcité. In fact, these laws are what make the religious here feel “persecuted.”
I lived in Canada for a while and by comparison, I would say that the law makes it easier to be an atheist here, but social attitudes made it easier there.
Religous people in the United States are very vocal and I think that sometimes gives observers from other countries a distorted impression.
May 16, 2009 at 12:58 am |
Most of us in Great Britain are aware of your constitutional separation of Church and State, and envy you very much there! That is why we are somewhat surprised at the difficulties faced by Americans who openly admit their non-belief. Sadly, as the strength of feeling against superstition grows over here, we are experiencing an ever more vociferous campaign (strongly supported by certain right-wing newspapers) claiming, as your believers do, that the poor Christian community is being “persecuted”. I would hazard a guess though, from what you are saying, that the inspiration for this, as with much modern political campaigning, has come from the US. These people are not going to give up their power and influence without a fight!!
May 15, 2009 at 9:25 am |
Great blog! And I commend you for seeking answers and knowledge about this world we live in. I’ve spent an hour poring over your blog. You sound like a person who is taking full control and responsibility of their life – something many more people should do. I’m not an atheist or any other title or label. I was also raised in a christian church. I left because beside the constant lack of a God proving himself, I couldn’t even get basic questions answered? Thta was very frustrating the older I got. I still believe in a Higher Power, or Creator – simply because i choose to!
But I do NOT believe in organized religion. And I don’t think that practising Christians should even use or read the Old Testament bible! That, my friends, is Judaism – not Christianity. I think that true Christianity should only start with the New Testament. but what do I know?
It is clear that many people feel the need to BELIEVE in something greater than us – like I do – but based on the deluge of comments from this particular post http://thebeattitude.com/2009/03/09/if-genocide-is-evil-how-is-god-any-different-than-adolf-hitler/#comments i get the hint that FEAR is the rule of the day. FEAR – nothing more than FEAR to ask questions and seek out answers.
That was an excellent analogy to use. In one instance we have multitude examples of a God that routinely practises what we Humans call GENOCIDE. And then we have a Human who practised – wait for it – ‘Godliness’? OUCH. Well, i wonder what his inspiration for his actions were? Even today – the American govt practises GENOCIDE (Iraq) for the ‘greater good’. Godly? Or sinful? Hmmmm.
And if that is not enough – forget the whole argument of ‘allegory vs. historical fact’ – REAL CHRISTIANS definitely believe in the Rapture! They will one day get whisked off into Heaven, while non-believers stay put and suffer. Allegory? Or Fact? Hmmmm. Which is it, Christians? How do you know what parts of the bible to believe in? Isn’t the Book of Revelations visions? – VISIONS that John had? So do we believe in one man’s fever dreams?
if God is the Supreme Intelligent Being – and we are created in His image – are we not TASKED and EXPECTED to seek out answers and learn more? Isn’t that what our MIND is for? I personally get offended by people who go purely by blind faith and not use logic.
After all, reasoning and logic are some of the tools that separate us from animals. lets use those tools.
May 15, 2009 at 9:43 am |
Thanks. The fact that I could keep anyones attention for an hour is a miracle. Maybe there is a god.
As with you, there were many reasons I walked away from faith. A god who doesn’t answer prayer or show any sign of his existence was one of many reasons.
May 15, 2009 at 9:29 am |
BeAttitude, as a follower of Christ. I do not believe you are a quarter monkey. You are all human made in God’s image. I pray that this time of questioning and atheism will strengthen your convictions and be able to call out things that are not Biblical/Qur’anical. I pray that you and any atheist have it out with God, challenge Him. He wants to know you care and loves to show up for those who call on His name, regardless if you believe in him or not. I have been blessed to see some ridiculous miracles and it’s to the point for me, that I really can’t go back. I daily struggle with- either this whole thing is a crock or God is fully real and bigger than I can imagine. I’ve gone with the latter and it’s been an exciting journey. I love the imagery of the flower on the other side of the fence. America is a horrible place for someone to get a good idea of Christianity to be honest. If I had to guess, of the 75% who claim Christianity, perhaps only 20% of those truly believe and live as though the Bible is the word of God and that Christ is Lord (literally master). In most other countries, following Christ would be similar to the loneliness you may be feeling. I encourage you or anyone else who feels atheism most describes them to continue to dialogue and ask the tough questions to someone, who although you may think they’re crazy, are living the way Christ did, full of love and actions that speak for their faith. Godspeed, and I appreciate my Muslim brothers out there following Allah in their way that doesn’t include the Wahabi kind of Islam. Glad your blog popped up on the WordPress front page!
ngallentine.wordpress.com
May 15, 2009 at 9:46 am |
As James commented, we are actually 99% chimpanzee and 1% human genetically.
If god is real, he is welcome to meet me on the road to Damascus any time.
May 15, 2009 at 9:31 am |
I think religion or a structured philosophy like Buddhism is important in the beginning of one’s life for moral development. I was raised Catholic and I recognised that it shaped my worldview and my moral development (such as it is!
).
But in time I outgrew religion and it was time “to put aside childish things”.
I learnt the lessons of my faith, and incorporated them into my life and my worldview. And then I saw the trappings of religion as the empty vessel that had helped convey the essence of the message and the lessons of life but was no longer necessary.
I understood (as best I could) and moved on.
Deciding not to believe is not an easy thing.
Faith provides one with answers. Without faith, one looks for answers and the answers can be bleak to those who have had the comfort of faith before.
And I’m not sure that I’m comfortable being called an “atheist” for two reasons.
Firstly, “atheism” is another “-ism” like catholicism, materialism, theism, capitalism, pragmatism, idealism, marxism, communism, secularism, etc. is a system of thought, and a worldview. I am not sure that all people who call themselves atheist or ignorantly say that they “practice” atheism thing about their absence of faith, or arrived at their “abandonment of faith” in the same manner. That is, I don’t think that there is common understanding or worldview that can homogeneously be called “atheism”
Secondly, “Atheist” literally means “non-believer” or rejection of the existence of deities/god. That’s like calling a Chinese, “non-White”. Or Hispanics, Blacks (or whatever is the politically correct term now) or any other ethnic group “Non-whites”. What does that say about the prescribed norm?
“Atheist” means that you are identified by your lack. It is a negative definition.
In Singapore, where I am, we use another term for people with no religious affiliation: Free-thinkers. I prefer that term.
And as a free-thinker I do not feel the need to defend why I do not believe. Faith is optional. But it is not bad.
So i also do not feel the need to put down religion. I don’t agree with Richard Dawkins approach of criticising religion and calling theists deluded.
Firstly, it’s just plain rude. It’s like insulting one’s parents or family.
Secondly, you catch more bees with honey than bile. Seriously, did he expect any true believers to drop their faith after reading his book? His book was an exercise in “intellectual masturbation” to use term from long ago. Intellectually self-gratifying with no productive results.
Thirdly and most importantly, there is a reason why people believe. Most people need faith. Otherwise the world is a scary scary place. You cannot take away their faith and just give them science. It is not enough.
And I have rambled on enough. Be brave and be happy.
May 15, 2009 at 9:37 am |
I like what you said! You made more sense in this blog comment page than many sermons I’ve heard over years. lol
May 15, 2009 at 9:40 am |
I thought it comical that a commenter would say atheism is growing because it’s the popular thing to do.
Although, not an atheist myself, I have friends and family who do not understand or get at all my particular spiritual walk and to try and explain a href=”http://luke1720.wordpress.com/stuff-i-believe-as-a-diest/”>Deism… well, like most people, it simply does not compute with what they’ve been told all their lives.
May 15, 2009 at 9:42 am |
Sorry for double posting but bad coding made my link not stick.
Deism
May 15, 2009 at 9:49 am |
Html code isn’t as forgiving as god. One missed “<” symbol and your hosed.
And I see that you play a Taylor guitar. Nice. I have a 714ce and Koa T5.
May 15, 2009 at 10:27 am |
I would not be suprised if some know and have just not said anything. I read friends blogs, not to say that all your friends know of this blog, but some might. I think we should give “Christians” (Which I am one of) the benefit of the doubt. We make mistakes, just like everyone else. I don’t think that BEattitude is hiding from anything, but I do know that he is learning things that he wouldn’t otherwise know. Eventually the subject will come up and I hope the best for you either way.
Besides, Christainity can only share with those who are willing to accept, just like the same for those who practice atheism. I have to admit I have seen hate from both sides and it is not pretty. My father-in-law is atheist and we have great conversations together. Scripturally “Iron sharpens Iron” is a great concept whether you believe in the Bible or not, and helps me know my faith better. I do take offense to those who say that I am not a “free thinker” just because of what I believe. It is just a nice way of saying “You idiot, how can you intellegently believe something contrary to what I believe.” I have my reasons for faith, just like they have their reasons for theirs.
I do believe in faith “In things unseen”. I cannot come against much of the arguments in atheistic sites because I just cannot cover all the subjects all by myself. However, I am learning more with an open mind then I would have , had I just shut those who disagree with me altogether. I hope the best for you, in your endeaver with your friends, your allies, and those who disagree with you.
May 15, 2009 at 12:14 pm |
Religious Idiots, when you realise there is only one Demon (deity) in charge of us all ? called by the name of ….. u guessed it. The rest is just good old human nature and the law of survival acting out.
Humanitarianism, perhaps the best way forward. Not traditional christianity, neither Islam, not traditional militant budhism, Tao ro Shinto,etc… leads to just plain confuscianism.
Where is Your professed God of justice who answers by fire, tempest, hail, rain (elements of nature). Where’s evidence of Miracles ? Given that all are “sinners” under the heels of an angry GOD is it worth it for God to intervene in our petty squabbles and ignorance ?
Is it worth it for you to invest your time and resources in searching for an elusive GOD rather than just living out your life as does the rest of Nature ?
May 15, 2009 at 12:19 pm |
“those who practice atheism” —-There’s nothing to practice..no dogma. It is simply a lack of belief in any god.
“I have my reasons for faith” —-Wonderful! Is it evidence that would convince someone? If not, it’s not very useful for anyone other than yourself.
May 15, 2009 at 1:00 pm |
Yes, there is enough evidence to convince someone and it has, but probably not you. So it is useful, just not for you. It is sad. I have had wonderful conversations with atheists, (I disagree with them) but it is that kind of attitude that they throw right back in the face of a Christian and call us hateful. This is exactly the Elitist Intellectualism that was talked about earlier in the blog. Also you practice (live) life by the things that you believe or do not believe in, so I do not believe myself to be wrong on what I said.
May 15, 2009 at 1:06 pm |
“that kind of attitude that they throw right back in the face of a Christian and call us hateful.” —- Please feel free to point out where I did this. What kind of attitude are you referring to? You don’t like that I ask hard questions? Sorry…I’m going to ask them and point out where you misrepresent atheism.
“This is exactly the Elitist Intellectualism ” —- Again I have no idea what you are talking about. Please point out where I was elitist. Is it because I ask for evidence?
“Also you practice (live) life by the things that you believe or do not believe in, so I do not believe myself to be wrong on what I said.” —- I have no idea what you are saying here. Are you saying that if someone believes in something that they are inherently correct? So if someone believed it was right to rape babies…you would be okay with that? Seems kind of wrong to me.
What it comes down to is that I care if my beliefs are true or not. That is why I demand evidence for claims. Provide some evidence. How do you know it won’t convince me? That seems a little dishonest to me…kind of like you don’t actually have evidence. Because if you did have evidence and it would save me from burning in hell for eternity…don’t you think it’s your duty as a christian to save me from that torture?
May 15, 2009 at 2:10 pm |
I had no idea that it was so difficult to “come out” as an unbeliever in America today! I thought that the uncompromising courage of people like Gore Vidal, an “out” atheist and “bisexual” who even stood for Congress almost 50 years ago (and nearly unseated a Republican in his stronghold), had made it much more acceptable to digress from the mainstream Christian view. I must say that I WAS surprised recently by the reaction of Californians to the Prop 8 controversy, but assumed that this was down to the massive advertising campaign funded by the Mormon Church, and the ability of the religious right to mobilize its supporters better. People in Britain are generally irreligious, but I can sympathise with you guys, due to my own experiences. Forgive me if you`ve read all this before, as I have written about it on other blogs, but not, I think, on this one. I was inveigled into the Plymouth Brethren while a teenager (a favourite tactic of the evangelicals!) and, despite going through mental agonies trying to marry proven scientific facts with their idiotic belief in the literal accuracy of every single word of “Holy Writ”, it was years before I had the courage and strength of will to break free from them. In that time I suffered from severe depression, had a nervous breakdown, and experienced financial ruin, all because of my obsession with this belief-system, and I can quite honestly say that they ruined my life completely. But, is the nightmare over now that I have found freedom? No it is not! I now go in fear of meeting any of them, as they just take this as another opportunity (from “the Lord”, naturally) to harangue me on the need for me to repent of my foolish ways and “return to Him”. I don`t argue with them, and I have never even criticised them, except amongst family and close friends (who at one time feared for my sanity, without thanks from me), but they seem to think that THEY have the right to tell other people where they are wrong, and how they should be living their lives!! They even write letters to me on in similar vein, and Christmas, with its “God-given” excuse for renewing acquaintances, is a nightmare which I absolutely dread! I`m sure all this resonates with others reading this blog, and I can only imagine what it must be like to live in a country where every other person thinks that it is unbelievers who are the loopy ones. I don`t agree at all with BEattitude on this – and I think I`ve said THIS here before – about belief in an imaginary god doing no harm, and maybe some good, to the believer. I think it is all a dangerous delusion which at best means that believers are out of touch with reality, and at worst leads to them, and others whom they recruit so enthusiastically, losing their minds completely. I`ve seen it happen to others, and it almost happened to me!!
May 15, 2009 at 3:06 pm |
There are some people that do not know that I am an atheist, but many do. I don’t care how people feel about me. It makes certain things awkward, and friendships tense, but I firmly believe that I am a much better person because I am an atheist. In fact, most atheists I know are fantastic people.
Many well known scholars are also atheists, its just that most people don’t realize that.
Great post!
May 15, 2009 at 3:59 pm |
I get you completely there’s nothing wrong with being an Atheist you’re the same person but the one time I even made a comment to a parent about it, I was yelled a for my lack of belief in a god. If anything, Atheism might be growing slightly but it definitely is not ‘the popular thing to do’ at least not yet
May 15, 2009 at 4:42 pm |
The trouble with humanity is that it has always had to ‘hang a label’ on itself. Humanity cannot be blamed for this because fear alone (enforced by others who wish to control) has been the ‘chief tool’ used. When individuals, on up to greater populations, have no sense of ‘Self Identity’ or ‘personal sovereignty’ the fear factor easily maintains the upper hand. We have a voluminous load of laws slapped on us because the ‘power elite’fearful wish to maintain control over the lesser fearful (under the auspices of ensuring harmony out of the chaos.) Once we all ‘UNLEARN THE CONDITIONING’ we all need not refer to ourselves as anything but FREE! It’s only the silly notion of ‘ATTACK AND DEFEND’ which has brought us to where we are. The good thing is that more and more people are reacquainting with personal sovereignty. A critical mass is soon to become concrete and those who would control us will be left behind.
May 15, 2009 at 6:48 pm |
[...] How it feels to be an atheist in America. A commenter on my blog informed me that atheism is only growing because it is the popular thing to do right now. [...] [...]
May 16, 2009 at 12:08 am |
I see that on your “about me” page that your doubts about religion are rather recent and that you were once a fervent believer. Therefore, it’s not surprising that most of your aquaintances are devout Christians. You may find that over time you’ll meet more people who are not religious and you will feel less isolated.
Unlike you, all my close friends and familly know that I’m an atheist. Actually, my immediate familly are all Atheists or Agnostics. However, I often feel awkward in situations with people I don’t know well. Sometimes, it seems that many Christians feel that they’re persecuted if they are not allowed to foist their beliefs on others. To anyone in the United States who is not a Christian, this is simply laughable.
The notion that Atheism is “popular” is just peculiar. However, we may have finally hit a critical mass where Atheism is no longer seen as deviant and this in turn may lead more people to “come out of the closet.”
May 16, 2009 at 2:28 am |
I remember the first time I realized what a empty, meaningless, mental game religion was. It was an I-see-the-emperor-has-no-clothes-moment. I could never again ignore the naked embarrassing truth. I now call it willfully sincere hypocrisy. They sincerely think pretending God is real will benefit others.
Churches are full of people who don’t really believe but secretly think they ought to.
May 16, 2009 at 1:30 pm |
This is exactly what happened to me ZZ: it was just like a conversion experience; and I agree with your other comments 100%!!
May 16, 2009 at 6:39 am |
Hello again,
I have been staying up as much as I can with the comments here (you’re getting quite a bit!! It filled up my email box!). From what you’ve said to some other folks here, I sense that you’re cool with coherent debate. I think you’ll see that I’m not on the attack, but just making an honest reply to some things you’ve said in response to others. So, here’s something for starters:
In one comment you wrote:
“A lonely life is spending countless hours alone in prayer to a god that doesn’t answer and spending days in fear of the unknown. I’m fine with the unknown. It’s more exiting to discover things as we go rather than believing all of the answers are in an archaic book.”
And in another you wrote:
“…there were many reasons I walked away from faith. A god who doesn’t answer prayer or show any sign of his existence was one of many reasons.”
To which I answer:
The “archaic book” certainly has answers for both disappointments you list in these comments.
1. First, “a god who doesn’t answer prayer” is not the God of the Bible.
Perhaps, your experience with prayer falls under this category: “You ask, and receive not, because you ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.” (James 4:3) If you found your Christian life “unfulling”, as you say, perhaps it’s because it was about you. But, that’s what separates the truth of Christianity from all other walks (and religions) of life. It’s about Christ. ALL about Christ. If you don’t pray according to His will, in accordance with scripture, and you just make God your personal wishing well and throw all of your personal wants at Him, then “you ask, and receive not, because you ask amiss”.
I feel comfortable telling you this, because you yourself said that you “do not require blind faith to find fulfillment in [your] life.” The defining wor there is “fulfillment”. If finding fulfillment is what you look for going into faith in Christ, you’re going to be disappointed, because it’s not about your fulfillment. It’s about worshipping and honoring the God of the universe who created you, knows everything about you, and who is watching you in utter disdain and sorrow, at this very moment, as you deny His existence.
2. Second, you mention “a god who doesn’t…show any sign of his existence…”
You said your wife is a believer, and since you once professed to be also, I wonder if you have a Bible program on your computer. If so, do a word search for “graven image” in the Bible. You might be amazed how many times God spoke of his hatred for “graven images”. Why? Because people made statues and monuments of deities, deities that they could SEE. It made them feel better, it gave them a tangible thing to look up to. Do not Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, and even many professedly Christian sects do this? How about those huge shrines and crucifixes you find in the giant cathedrals? I personally wonder if even the cross you find on many quaintly and modestly decorated churches is an abomination to God, since it’s mostly only a reminder of one part of Christ’s life, death, and resurrection (although, if you look at it correctly, you’ll realize that the cross is actually a correct reminder of all three of those things: He lived for the cross, He died the most excruciating death imaginable there, and He is no longer on it, but is risen).
The thing is, by simple logic, God MUST be – He HAS TO be – far too holy, and far too perfect, and too far above and beyond our human experience for us to even look upon Him. If He is everything that the Bible claims that He is, He’s not going to “show any sign” of Himself.
That is why, in all His unimaginable grace, He came to us in the man, Jesus Christ. He was born of a virgin to show clearly that He was not man-made. He endured and passed on all temptation, in order to do what none of us could do: be righteous before God. And then He sacrificed His perfect self on a cross, bearing all the wrath of God upon Himself, so that we would not have to bear that punishment ourselves.
I know you’ve heard that before. Of course I know that! I’m not repeating it to give the “gospel” one last pat on your head. But, God only “shows” up to those who come to Him ready to cast all their sins before Him, begging His forgiveness for going their own way and being their own god, while all the while hiding a heart full of sin and rebelliion against what He has laid out for us.
Being a Christian doesn’t lead to personal fulfillment. That’s what pitiful American Christianity has turned the gospel into: “come to Jesus and you’ll get your life fixed”. You know just as well as I do, that’s a load of junk. Ask Paul of the Bible when his human life was most comfortable and agreeable and desirable, and I guarantee he’ll say it was BEFORE he met Christ on the Damascus road. Everything after that was, as many like to put it, a living hell.
“Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.” (2 Corinthians 11:24-27, KJV)
You think talking about your atheism at the expense of losing a couple of friends would be bad, my friend, you don’t know what persecution is. I live in another country right now (overseas), where Christianity is all but lost, Muslims are slowly taking over, and religious expression is only allowed by veil-wearing Muslim women (who have fought the government law banning all wearing of religious clothing in schools, and won). I wasn’t thinking today, but I walked out of the apartment wearing one of my old t-shirts that has a cross on it. Walking down the street today was akin to you walking into church in a devil costume with your wife. My wife and I are missionaries, and we realized today that we’re being watched. All it takes is one Muslim, who is with the wrong sect, to report our existence to the blacklist.
Now, honestly, do you really feel threatened living in the States as an atheist?
Sorry so long. You won’t make me upset if you erase this one from your comment list to make room for shorter ones. But, I hope for continued dialogue, even if it is just between you and me.
J
May 16, 2009 at 9:30 am |
1. Prayer in my life was never all about me. Most of my prayer time was devoted to praying for other people and the world around me. I only prayed for myself by asking for God’s will in my life. I have spent countless hours in prayer, so I’m not new to the concept. My outlook on prayer is more about disappointment than lack of fulfillment. Prayer is not answered by a god regardless of how you try to rationalize it. And if God is watching me right now in utter distain, he is welcome to set me straight.
2. I’m not looking for Jesus’ face to appear on a piece of toast. I simply do not see any sign of his existence at work in the world or through his church. The church only continues to build the case that god is imaginary.
I have never viewed God as my personal genie. Like you, I have been highly critical of the church in America as a “10 Steps to a Better You” program. My reason for walking away from Christianity are not “heart” reasons. I simply see no evidence in the world or through the Bible to continue to believe such archaic teaching. The idea of eternally living forever sounds pretty good. But the Bible is much too flawed to build a foundation for faith.
My life is not in danger being an atheist, but my reputation certainly is.
May 16, 2009 at 12:42 pm |
I grant that the Scriptures are “archaic” in many ways, if your definition of that word is “old teaching”. A lot of Scripture, ie. the Old Testament, is full of things that applied to people in those times, but we still study and trust those words as much as the rest because they show the character of God and His perfect dealings with all people, and there are many things that still apply, or can be “made applicable”, to our lives today.
But, as for Scripture as a whole, the New Testament bundled with the Old, it is all still completely applicable today. Nothing has changed about it. It has always been, and always will be God’s Word. The unchangeableness of God (and His Word) is one of His many “God-only” attributes. It’s something that we can’t apply to ourselves. We change constantly. He doesn’t.
I’ve read some of the headlines of your other posts, and I see that you’ve made it your business to enlighten everyone of the “flaws” of Scripture. Now, not to gloat one bit, but I’ve studied this “piece of literature” quite extensively, at the level of the original languages, and with much meditation, thought, and writing. Yet, I’m far from knowing everything about the Bible. But, I am ready when you are to discuss those “flaws”. Point me to your favorite post concerning one of these flaws, and I’ll make my way to it.
Also, let me know how your concern for your “reputation” is not a self-seeking thing. Did you go into Christianity for a “reputation”? If you’re sure of your atheism, you’ll have no concern for your reputation outside of Christianity. People who are sure of something are not concerned with reputation, unless they’re hoping on some benefit from those who bring that reputation to them. Living a lie in front of your Christian friends is only going to make things worst, don’t you agree? You won’t lose them so much for your atheism as you will for just flat out living a lie in front of them. Who WOULDN’T leave a friend for lying like that???
Listen, becoming a Christian costs me absolutely every friendship I had at the time I converted at age 18 (not a single one is left now a decade later). Now, as the old saying goes, they weren’t real friends, were they? I suddenly became a weirdo, even living in the heart of the Bible belt.
C’mon, man, you can’t tell me that being an atheist is hard! That’s bologna, and you know it. It’s the easiest thing in the world! There’s no god, no responsibilities to someone or something greater and higher than yourself, other than other people (professionally or relationally). And other people are nothing to be afraid of. They’re just…other people, just like you and me. With no God, wow, I have to hand it to you, you’ve got social life made, my friend. There’s nothing offensive about it. You can mold into any “flavor” you want, man, and you can get anybody to like you, if you try.
Now, seriously, what in the world have you got to worry about with reputation? Is keeping all those potentially “oppressive” friends of yours really going to benefit you?
If losing those friends is really at stake here, then those aren’t friends that you need to keep, because they’re not really “friends”! They wouldn’t be very much “Christian” either, for that matter.
Hey, I’m not trying to throw every word of yours back at you, but you’ve got to come up with something better than this.
J
May 16, 2009 at 1:15 pm |
Yes, you are attempting to throw every word back at me.
Of course my concern for my reputation is a self serving thing. I’m not looking to sacrifice myself and friendships to carry my “cross” of atheism the way a Christian does. And by the way, I was never ashamed of sharing my faith as a Christian. I did not hide what I believed.
Atheism is not a religion or a theistic belief system. It is the lack of religious belief. My goal is not to save people with the gospel of atheism.
I’m assuming your friends grew tired of your constant holier than thou preaching. I didn’t claim being an atheist was hard, only that it changes the way people judge you as a person. Just as you have judged me here.
If your goal is to save me, you’ll have to come up with something better than this.
May 18, 2009 at 1:25 pm |
Reading through the comments, I notice some people mention that the author is searching for some kind of truth and they hope it leads him back to religion.
I don’t see any mention of a search for truth in the article.
I’m not intending to be critical here, as I understand that the sentiment comes from a genuinely good place. I also understand that, in the loosest sense of the word, we’re all looking for some kind of truth. That’s not what I’m referring to. I don’t mean some entirely vague quest for knowledge. Under those terms, going online to see what the weekend weather forecast applies.
What I notice, though, is that it’s a common theist response to atheism. It’s as if they feel that someone without religion can’t possibly feel fulfilled in their life, like there’s something missing. Contrary to what any religious authority says, that simply isn’t the case.
As the author mentioned in one of the comments, I actually feel that my life is more purposeful and fulfilled than when I was Christian. This is the only life I have. In this short time I have on the earth, my interactions with my fellow human beings are more precious and dear to me than ever before. I have to pour out all the love I have for my fellow man while I am able because, for all I know, today is all I have to do so.
Rather than lacking direction or purpose, I feel as though I have been blind to the beautiful world around me until only recently.
The only truth I’m searching for is to explore this magnificent quadrillion-to-one shot existence and to treasure the statistical near-impossibilities that I inhabit it with. So you’ll have to excuse me when I consider such well-intentioned wishes as an insult.
May 18, 2009 at 1:53 pm |
My sentiment exactly. The world is actually more amazing and beautiful when it isn’t attributed to a jealous, man-made god. It’s the equivalent of looking at the world with blinders on.
I do mention being a seeker of truth on my “about me” page. The misconception is that I’m searching for the religious version of truth. Using religious doctrine from men that thought the earth was flat and at the center of the universe is not the place to discover truth. Just like you, I look to explore this magnificent “quadrillion-to-one shot” that has me standing on this big rock revolving around the star we call the sun.
May 18, 2009 at 2:03 pm |
You`ve hit the nail right on the head there Janus – that`s precisely how I feel since my “conversion” from religiosity, as well!! I feel as if I was in prison for practically the whole of my life up to that point, and I`ve now been set free to really enjoy my life and appreciate all the beauties of the universe! Like them, though, I really did believe that “the unsaved” had “a God-shaped void in their hearts” that could only be filled by my wonderful Saviour! It`s all nonsense, of course, and how could anyone know that in any case – I certainly couldn`t: I was just parrotting what I had been told in my ignorance. I`m really ashamed now of the way that I tried to force my ignorant , opinionated views down other people`s throats, and amazed that they were so patient and forbearing about it! All I can say in mitigation is that at least I was sincere in my beliefs, though that`s not much comfort to me now, and there are plenty of people who COULD say to me “I told you so!”, but thankfully they`re far too polite for that!! BTW, for those who wonder what sort of a philosophy an atheist could possibly have, one of my favourite quotes is from that great rationalist, Thomas Paine, who said: “My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.” If everyone lived by this what a much improved place the world would be!!!
May 18, 2009 at 6:57 pm |
Precisely, Barrie. The idea that people NEED Christianity or Jesus or religion in general is ubiquitous. It’s something that was hammered into my psyche since as far back as I can remember. The arrogance of such a belief. What’s worse is the absolute gall of these respected individuals who instill this egocentric tripe into children.
The ironic thing is that I was taught that the atheists were the arrogant ones who only rejected God in order to advance their hedonism unabated. It’s now that I realize that the idea that the believer can literally do anything and still feel as though their trespasses, can be forgiven is far more licentious.
Like you, I do feel a sense of shame for my arrogance. I think I gained something from the experience that has made me a more humble person. I won’t make the mistake of assuming that anyone believes what they do simply because of a defect on their part. As I mentioned from my Christian experience, such a belief is the epitome of arrogance.
However, it would be falling right back into that same mindset to simply declare it to be a Christian shortcoming. I’ve heard it from all sides. In the transitional period when I was still reeling from a shattered world view, I had a great deal of resentment. If you had asked me then, I would have said that Christians were the ones with a fundamental flaw, that they were too weak and codependent to function without their belief.
This, of course, is just as wrong as believing that I have a hole in my heart that only God can fill. It’s an arrogant assumption and a cheap shot.
As it stands, I still have a little resentment, but not at Christianity or religion in general. What still burns a little in me is that the people who used to call me “brother” now see me as someone who’s lost their way, as opposed to someone who has just found a new way.
I couldn’t hang out with my Christian friends without being told that I was being prayed for or one of them suggesting I go to a meeting with them. Telling them that I actually felt like a better, more fulfilled person without God and that I wasn’t interested in going to meetings because they didn’t do anything for me didn’t seem to be enough of an answer. Even after a couple years with my life more put together than it has ever been, I still get phone calls from people asking if I want to grab lunch and “talk about what’s going on.”
I don’t resent them. Their sentiments came (and still occasionally come) from a good place. I know they genuinely do care and that trying to get me to be a Christian again is how they show it. I don’t even feel like I’m coming from a moral or intellectual high ground when I mention that I’m content just how I am.
I don’t need them to believe what I believe. I treasure every one of them and they have my utmost respect. I simply got exasperated from being treated like half a person.
I know I’m rambling, but as a brief epilogue and to provide some more intellectual honesty, I have since become friends with a number of people of all brands of thinking.
It refreshes my love of humanity that I can talk with religious people of different backgrounds without feeling talked down to. The basic underpinnings of many religions is simply a love of your fellow man, the world you live in, and the life that we have been given (either by chance or something more intentional). While I believe that you don’t need to read a specific book (although I am partial to Dostoevsky) or perform any specific rituals to achieve the same result, I’m not going to tell someone they can’t.
My hypothesis is that the people who knew me as Christian will always see me as a lost sheep that needs rescuing. I guess resentful isn’t the right word. I suppose it’s just a sad inevitability of life.
May 18, 2009 at 5:20 pm |
Atheism is growing, not because it’s trendy, but because it’s the natural result of education. It’s unfortunate that some people lack empathy for others and act on their selfish desires at the expense of others, but those types of people are not limited to those who do not practice religion.
May 18, 2009 at 5:40 pm |
To those in this arena . . . all of you express on this topic. All of you could do well to focus and accept that these (and a myriad of others) topics are typical in generating NOTHING OTHER THAN EMOTIONAL DIVISION! You Americans (I’m Canadian), and the rest of the planet, have been bombarded with deceipt for decades. The deceipt has spawned from those fearful ones who feel it is their right to control the general populace planet wide. THESE PEOPLE WANT YOU TO BE AT ODDS WITH EACH OTHER! So . . . if the topic is related to religion, politics, genetic manipulation, walled-up, closed-minded scientists doing the bidding of those who fund their research, etc., IT ALL ADDS UP TO THE SAME COMMON DENOMINATOR! Keep the people at odds with each other and division is maintained. The sole reason this topic appears to be heated (not unlike “proud atheists” @ WordPress.com) is because people have been STRIPPED/DUMBED DOWN from KNOWING THEIR TRUE IDENTITY. Everyone has been bombarded with IDEOLOGIES for decades. Most everyone wishes to ‘fit in’ with a world view. This said . . . EVERYONE HAS AMPLE OPPORTUNITY TO REACQUAINT WITH TRUE IDENTITY however, we’re all TOO DISTRACTED by the ATTACK AND DEFEND mechanism which has prevailed for FAR TOO LONG! So be it!
June 4, 2009 at 1:22 am |
I grew up as an evangelical christian. I was taught that atheists were more evil than sinners or even jews (who don’t believe in the resurrection of christ *gasp*). That atheism was the only unforgiveable sin. And that we should never, never hang with them (unless we are spreading the gospel).
Well, I became an atheist about 5 years ago. I have become a BETTER person, actually. I used to be depressed and quite selfish. It didn’t look like it because I did a lot of the right things, but it was out of fear and duty. I didn’t love the lord jesus christ more than anything, but I couldn’t admit that to anyone.
Now, I enjoy life without irrational guilt or fear. I want to take advantage of every moment of life because this is all we KNOW we have. I want to leave the world a better place than I found it (I didn’t care before – the important thing was ETERNAL life, not this one). I feel more connected to my fellow human beings since I stopped labelling them as “saved”, “not saved”.
I have not fully “come out” as an atheist to my parents, who will step up their efforts to missionize, and who will fear that I will burn eternally. It is very oppressive to be part of a minority who, in many regions, are virtually silenced. I know people who are pretending to be christians because they may even lose their livelihoods if their communities find out that they lack “faith”.
Christians who complain about being persecuted makes me say…”huh?” For almost 2000 years, christians have used force, torture, murder, and any other form of coercion toward people who disagreed with them. The Inquisition, the witch trials, etc are part of the bloody history of christianity. They don’t lop off our heads for being atheists now – their oppression is a little more subtle. But it’s still definitely there.
June 4, 2009 at 10:51 am |
[...] of which I was not aware, but in my memory it was no big deal. I wanted to write after reading “How it feels to be an Atheist in America” and some other posts in which atheists describe feeling uncomfortable where they live or where [...]
June 9, 2009 at 10:06 am |
Hi, I’m from New Zealand, Supposedly “GODS ZONE” hehehe Its a kiwi expression. I don’t know if anyone outside of N.Z has heard of it before?, But any way I’m Sorry if I sound rude and I’m apologetic if I sound like I’m attacking anyone above although it might sound like it. I’m sorry I’m not very good at this kind of thing, Just wanted to be apart of this discussion and aren’t really interested in what others think of me, Like I said just wanted to be apart of this discussion and add my THOUGHTS. I didn’t receive a great education, So its pretty simple. What Ive written below is true and why would I fabricate anything. That said I think you all know who I am anyway, And if you don’t you probably have a life, So here goes…
I was a victim of a real Catholic Inquisition which kidnapped, persecuted, force, raped and tortured me as a WITCH or what ever they thought I was and almost succeeded at killing me, Well they tried.
Lord knows they haven’t changed a lot in two thousand years, I thought I had traveled “back to the future” two or three hundred years.
Lord Subtle? I lived the real thing and they were anything but sub-tile. I know first hand how tolerant, superstitious and backward thinking religious people are. As you can tell I’m angry “IT DESTROYED MY ENTYER LIFE”. At the same time its not being a victim that’s made an Atheist, Its just that I woke up and stopped to think at what I actually believed in and was stunned at what I toke for granted and was told to believe all my life. I could chose to take the piss out of the bible but I wont its to easy. Just ask your self If their is a god you’ve just gotta look at the world and ask Why? Why are Children suffering in the world, What kind person or god who has the power to change or prevent natural disasters or prevent human suffering in anyway or form would let that happen anyway. Why? May be gods the one with a lack of torrents and is short tempered. Why does he smites people for what he purposely made them for anyway. Does he care? I don’t see it in the world. And don’t give me one of those philosophical answers. I don’t see intelligent design in the world, Only those who choose to act on behalf of their god, And fore-full his word! Anyone can tell you what to do, It just depends on how long you choose to act upon it. If god created us and had a purpose for all of us, Then what purpose did have for all those children suffering of hunger, born with disabilities, unclean water, forced child solders, ……. To fill our what T.V skysets with latest and current overseas skynews. Financial Blood prophet for the media and their need to fill that hour of news. Is that their purpose is just live target practice for another one of gods creations with a gun. What would you do if you were god. Would you let this happen? No excuses for god, put your self in god shoes make one up for your self. I couldn’t! Children suffering just wouldn’t happen in my world if I was all knowing, all powerful and all supposedly wise. No god, Its just us and what were doing to ourselves.
Gods a poor investment and gives poor returns, Unless your in the arms industry or your running some evangelical pyramid scam and Guess who’s second from the top of the money scam. Either way god either gets you or your money.
I understand a need to believe in more, I wish I believed in more. I hope there is more. Not for me, But for those who I care about. I understand a need to believe in something but what without the delusional and dangerous beliefs that go with it.
June 10, 2009 at 11:36 pm |
I would rather not damage the relationships I have with them.
I have never had a religion and so have never had to deal with the situation you describe here; so either I am completely out of line to even comment or I have a useful outside perspective. It seems to me that there must be ways to look at the practical implications of this change for each of these relationships and to deal with them accordingly.
In these friendships that you do not want to endanger, how often is religion mentioned explicitly? To what extent is religion a substantial part of the “social contract” between you? You say that you have not told these people about your changed view of religion and that they do not know about it. Does this mean that you are now saying things in their presence that you do not believe? Or does it mean that the relationship really has nothing to do with religion but is just a person-to-person friendship?
If shared religion is really an essential component of the relationship, then I think the relationship cannot last. But I bet this is rare.
If religion is not essential to the relationship, then as a practical matter, you need to demonstrate by your continuing unchanged behavior that your changed view of religion does not change the relationship in any material way.
For example, if you never actually discuss religion with friend A, there is no need to discuss lack of religion either. Doing so out of the blue might seem odd or even like an attempt to advocate atheism (which, apparently, you would not intend by it). Eventually the matter will come up in some natural way and you can say that your view has changed and, if friend A wants to know, you can say why.
Also, as demonstrated in these comments, there is a wide variety of ways to express the reasons for not believing. When the time comes to tell one of these friends, I think it is important to use the least inflammatory and least derisive language that accurately states your view.
I do not imagine that any of this is useful in a direct way (and you did not actually ask for advice, anyway). My point is that, in freeing yourself from dogma, etc., you freed yourself to examine the reality of your circumstances; you will need to deal with your friends according to the reality of each relationship and not on the basis of any stereotypical notion of what a Christian expects of you.
June 11, 2009 at 12:08 am |
Your suggestions are all very logical and interesting Verbifex, but you have obviously never had evangelical friends! There is no possibility of a “normal” conversation with them, as they just look on every casual encounter as another opportunity (“from the Lord” naturally!) to “win you back for Him”. That is their sole objective now, and they are just looking for the chance to harangue you on the subject, so, after the usual pleasantries, the “conversation” (ie lecture) goes something like this: “Isn`t the world getting into a dreadful state? There are `wars and rumours of wars`, the government is becoming more and more ungodly, violence and crime are on the increase, Muslim fanatics are taking over the Third World, anti-Christian laws are being passed, sodomites hold sway in the corridors of power, women are usurping the role of the man in society, the TV programmes show the most disgusting filth, earthquakes and natural disasters are on the increase – it`s `just as He said it would be`: His return must be VERY near now – are you ready to meet Him: what are you going to say to Him about the wasted years: He needs you to do His work, and you have disappointed Him: will you be `ashamed at His coming`?…blah!blah!blah!” I bet all this rings a bell with some readers!! There`s no possibility to counter any of their arguments, and in any case this would just add fuel to the fire! The only thing you can do is to either be very rude and walk away from them, or try to avoid contact, so that you do not offend them. They don`t give up!!!
June 11, 2009 at 8:01 am |
Verbifex, thank you for a very thoughtful and loving response. You make some strong suggestions for someone who wishes to be loving to their friends instead of walking away from the whole relationship over a disagreement.
barriejohn, thank you for your observations. I don’t mean that sarcastically. As an evangelical Christian, I am turned off by the same things you point out about evangelical Christians. I believe that is a term that has been co-opted by people who are anything but. Evangelical is a term than originally meant “one who proclaims the Good News.” It has become associated with a methodology rather than a belief.
I obviously disagree with you that this is what all evangelical Christians are like. However, I think that rather than reacting to what you say, we Christians need to take a long hard look at ourselves and find out if there are any ways in which those things might be true. I think that’s important no matter what your position. That’s part of having discussions instead of arguments. It’s how people grow and mature. If we denounce instead of discuss, then no one wins. If we discuss…even if neither of us are convinced, we both walk away richer for the experience.
Christians do need to take a long look at our history of “evangelizing” by putting a notch on our Bibles when we finally beat someone into submission. We need to look at the people we allow to represent us…the Robertsons, the Osteens, and the Swaggarts. We need to consider churches that use culture as bait on a hook made of guilt. We need to seriously consider the ways we have replaced our reliance on God’s providence with our reliance on the providence of Right Wing politics. Each person, and each group has something they need to consider, change, and try to make amends for. You have compiled a pretty damning list of grievances against evangelical Christians. We need to look at those and consider what things are coming from anger, and what things are coming from fact. I challenge you to do the same when someone lists grievances against a group to which you belong…or to you yourself. Don’t react…consider what they’re saying and why they’re upset. If you start lashing back, they’re not going to hear you. But if you consider it, own up to the problems that are your own, and don’t own the problems that aren’t…then you can have a real conversation and heal that relationship.
I flatly disagree with you that walking away or avoiding contact is the way to handle a situation in which you disagree with someone you love. There may come a time for that when no other alternative exists. But those times are few and far between. Please don’t take the easy angry way out. Get your hands dirty and have a relationship.
Love,
-Andrew
June 11, 2009 at 8:10 am |
I got a bit lost in my own anger and frustration while writing and looking back on whats happened to my life and more than likely will again. Reading back on what I wrote, I dribbled on a bit and got lost in what I was trying write. I Got BURNT at the stake Literally!! and got caught up in others religious and superstitious beliefs and suspect a bit more. It destroyed my life like I said. In saying that I am an Atheist 100% through logic and common sense. I see the humour in what christians believe and are just amazed at what they believe and at the same time terrified at what they believe is about to happen. “Got to fore fill the book” Scary
After what Ive been through Id think “jesus” the living god would think twice before coming back from were exactly and how old does that make him anyway?. I’M a amateur historian, But have found a few things just don’t add up. The SUNgod seems to come a whew times. I thought the whole idea of enlightenment and religion was the pursuit of truth?
I real problem in believing, Ive just got to look at all the bad things in the world and ask yah-WHY? Why? do these things happen? Other wise whats the point in god if hes not in the control.
I just imagine our ancestor in a cave at night, Dark and Pouring down with rain, Whites of their eyes peering through the darkness in owe, they huddle in fear, Then FLASH, BANG, THUNDER. They look up and think, Well I can see lights on up steers and I can hear somebody home? So their must be someone home? “Oooow” the gift of fire!! I could burn other ape at the stake with that. “Wow” were does all the rain come from? Great lakes in the sky I guess? “Watch It” Bright angle came down from heaven and left a pretty stone. “Wow” starry night, Look at all the camp fires in the sky, that’s were all the angles must live. Id better send a burnt E-mail offering, Look at the smoke rising to the clouds in heaven. Oh no,I think the big glowing banana going down, Just as well the naked banana in the night sky will be back. I think Id better go back into my cave. WOW FLASH, BANG, THUNDER!! and on it goes.
Just got to remember the mentality of our ancestors who invented a god to make sense of the world and all they mysteries around them. There was no other way for them to make sense of everything, but by explaining it with elemental god .Why is it raining? Whats that sound? Whats that bright light……………?????? If something made the rain, wind , earthqauke, then who made us and why? why, why, why,why………….??????? Genesis, If began as a lie, Its all way a lie. No mater how much you rewrite it.
I wish I could believe in something to make peace with death, For Mum and Dads sake. But just cant get my head around and believe in the god bit. Id like to believe in more, But what?? Do you and your Bible in all honesty realy know the real truth of death? Or are you just guessing or just taking the word of someone else who believes in giant fairy’s in the sky with swords and spears.
How do know jesus wasn’t the devil in sheep’s clothing (the sacrificial lamb) and tricked you all????
I know, I’M not a very nice guy, but I real want you to loose your faith, just the same way as some of your fellow christians made my life unfulfilling. You and your people made me this way!!
June 11, 2009 at 8:29 am |
Aaron,
It sounds like you have had some very horrible experiences. I am sorry to hear that. You say that you are not a nice guy and that I and my people have made you that way. But to be honest you sound like a decent enough person. You are obviously very upset, and with the things you say have happened, you have a right to be upset. But you ask a lot of questions, and underneath what you say here it sounds like you are interested in continuing your search. You ask questions about making peace with death, the reasons for suffering, and how other religious ideas like the “sun god” play into the equation. I hope that you will continue that search.
Love,
-Andrew
June 12, 2009 at 6:32 pm |
Hi, Thanks Andrew
To anyone who’s interested out there, I know this blog is about “How it feels to be an atheist in America” and Ive my have missed the point, But Ive just given you some idea what its like to be a Atheist in New Zealand. I cant talk on behalf of the whole country, But man alive, you wouldn’t read it in the papers.
I just remembered something resent in the N.Z news, A woman 22-year-old Janet Moses, who drowned when water was poured down her throat during the exorcism ceremony. At trial the jury was told the accused believed Moses had become cursed after the theft of this lion statue from a Wairarapa pub. “HORUS CHRISTY” Just as well Janet Mose never stole a golden bull!, half the town would have been wiped of the map by god.
And she’s only one of many who toke part and have taken part prior to this exorcism ceremony. “FUDGING BYCYCLE!!” I’m pretty sure its 2009 not 1808!!!
This is were part of my search for the truth has taken me.
(David Icke Symbolism and Religion) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS36X7aujzI
(Truth about Religion) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjGkRFFBd0A&feature=PlayList&p=3A2E3FBC50B6BFC3&index=0
July 8, 2009 at 11:40 am |
Exactly. It does feel that way to me in the bible belt.