I have always found it extremely odd when Evangelicals profess to have a “personal relationship with Jesus”. How personal can the relationship be when the other person is invisible and never speaks to you?
I don’t know about you, but I got tired of talking to myself.
A personal relationship with Jesus should be more like this:
Tags: Bible, Christianity, Church, Evangelical, Friend, God, Imaginary, Invisible, Jesus, Personal Relationship, Personal Savior, Prayer
May 28, 2009 at 10:49 am |
It’s actually pretty great.
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:” – John 10:27
May 28, 2009 at 11:03 am |
I have fond memories of my days as a Christian, but sheep can also be led over a cliff. I find it much more important to question where this “voice” is coming from instead of blindly following like a Lemming.
May 28, 2009 at 12:15 pm |
Not only that, but how can one have a “personal relationship” with something that isn’t a person at all?
May 28, 2009 at 3:00 pm |
Like BEattitude, I used to be a Christian, and I can testify to the enormous comfort to be gained from having this imaginary Friend – all-powerful, all-knowing, ever-present, loving, forgiving, kind, generous, and so on! The fact that He only exists in your mind doesn`t make Him any less real to a believer than members of his own family are!!
May 29, 2009 at 1:55 am |
My favorite was “I died for your sins once, I can do it again!”
May 30, 2009 at 1:14 pm |
xcellent post – will def be sharing this
May 30, 2009 at 5:52 pm |
I don’t know about others, but I speak to God and He speaks to me, like a friend would speak to me!
I clearly hear His voice, so who can say that He isn’t real or doesn’t speak?
May 31, 2009 at 11:07 am |
Vadim,
When you say “like a friend” or that you “clearly hear” God’s voice”, what do you mean?
To most people “hear” and “voice” are features of sound – that is, one person (e.g. my friend) uses their vocal cords to vibrate the air, in turn causing vibrations in the eardrums of the other. Is that part of what you mean when you say that God speaks to you “like a friend” and that you hear his “voice”? Do your eardrums vibrate? Does God create vibrations in the air in order to cause those vibrations? Does he do that by using his vocal cords?
Or are you using those words in a different way from the normal everyday use?
May 31, 2009 at 2:03 am |
Nice vid.
If you hear someone else’s voice in your head telling you things you have, I am afraid to say, a mental disorder.
May 31, 2009 at 4:44 am |
Children have imaginary friends where they’re little, and we think that’s cute. Adults who hear voices in their heads telling them what to do or not to do are generally considered to have mental problems. People of other faiths say they’re following God’s voice are condemned as heretics or blashphemers. “Chrisitians” do it – and they’re considered holy and spiritual and “good”.
Hypocrisy or what!?
June 1, 2009 at 11:26 am |
As a born-again Follower of Christ, I believe that when a child of God, bends his knee to the Lord of all lords, the Alpha and Omega, the Great I Am, and opens his heart and soul and mind to His Creator, committing to belief in Jesus The Christ, and asks that He be placed at the center of his life, That person may “hear” his God peak to him. No, not through the auditory canal, but rather through the mind as much as the heart, as an intuitive feelling. When Believers then act upon these callings and messages, and see real changes occur in their lives, they express this experience as having “heard” God, for want of a better word. Try it, you might like it.
June 3, 2009 at 9:14 pm |
Even as a kid, I never got the invisible buddy…it just didn’t make any sense on some level. As I got older, I explored the organized religion, deism, pantheism, Eastern religion/philosophy, New Age to make sure that I left no rock left unturned. There never was “my buddy and me” in any of that. I know now what I sensed when I was a child and that there isn’t any supernatural, metaphysical, religious, spiritual working in the universe. There is my one life and I got one shot to do it well. That is the good news.
June 4, 2009 at 3:28 am |
As a former nihilist (and I mean a nihilist clean to the hilt), I can certainly understand the contempt many feel when Christians make reference to things like having a personal relationship with Jesus and hearing the voice of God. Heck, I even regarded many atheists with contempt for their often unquestioning faith in science and human potentiality.
With that said, I’m now going to open myself up wide for that same kind of contempt and scorn — so, be my guest, fire away.
To state it plainly, God does communicate with me in a variety of ways and on a fairly frequent basis, and He has made Himself real to me on an experiential level that even my near-infinite capacity for skepticism can no longer discount it, not without writing myself off as severely delusional verging on completely insane.
And maybe I am screwed up in the head. Maybe I’m just projecting, or the God part of my brain suddenly went from utterly inactive to high gear for some unknown reason. I don’t know. I’m not offering any rational explanations or apologetics for God’s existence. Truth be told, I could probably do a better job arguing against His existence than for it.
All I can say is that God has made Himself real to me in a really big, life-changing way, and I would honestly rather die than lose the reality of Him in my life. I came by my faith through an intense inner battle between skepticism and experience — so you’re welcome to laugh it up all you want, but I’m not even going to pretend to apologize for my beliefs.
By the way, the video is pretty funny, especially the part where Jesus threatens to kill himself.
June 4, 2009 at 9:13 am |
I would get a MRI and a CT if I ever started talking like that. The fact that you feel it necessary to say that you ‘arent going to apologize’ for your beliefs is a very telling statement. If you are what you say you are and were then you know that most people arent out to disrespect people’s religion but instead are out to keep the peace. What REAL peace has been created by religion?! none
June 4, 2009 at 11:04 pm |
Wow, Alicia. You imply that I should get my brain scanned and then fault me for being defensive in the same breath. That’s interesting and (as you say) very telling. It’s kinda like bashing a guy on the head and then accusing him of mistrust when he goes around wearing a helmet.
But, then again, I did invite people to take a shot at me, so I guess I’ve got nothing to complain about. And I probably deserve it. I can remember a time when I actually got a kick out of pointing out weaknesses in other people’s belief systems and trying to plant seeds of doubt in their minds. I justified it by telling myself it was for their own good — that they would be better off seperated from their irrational superstitions — but, truth be told, there was some twisted thing inside me that despised beliefs and moral convictions of any kind. I’m not sure why, but people with strong beliefs and convictions made me very angry and uncomfortable back in those days.
And you’re right, religion has spawned an awful lot of division and bloodshed throughout human history. But, then again, I’m not very big on organized religion. All I know is that God’s literal involvement and presence has brought a great deal of peace into my once tumultuous existence.
June 5, 2009 at 8:11 am |
Ron, you talk about god communicating to you. Small question if I may.
OK, how do you know it’s god communicating to you? Does it send email, maybe from god@heaven.com, or perhaps writes messages using fire in the sky? If the communication is not as clear and as awesome as that, it’s probably not god, more likely just a minor demon fucking with you.
June 5, 2009 at 10:54 pm |
Actually, God sends me packages (UPS, first class) filled with block alphebet letters — you know, the kind they give to preschool kids. Through an extensive process of trial and error, I finally discovered that if I dump the letters randomly onto my kitchen floor between the hours of 2 and 3 a.m. (ETS) on a Wednesday while reciting the Pledge of Allegiance at the top of my lungs and wearing only a loincloth and my “Hey, Stupid, Jesus Loves You” cap, then the letters will miraculously arrange themselves into divine messages written in Pig Latin. His most recent message was “On’tda astca ourya earlspa eforeba winesa.”
February 4, 2010 at 4:37 pm |
@ Ron
I am new to this format and have just made a reply to your post without hitting the “reply” link so please scroll down a few posts to see my response. Cheers
June 5, 2009 at 11:08 pm |
And, please, pardon me for misspelling “alphabet.”
June 11, 2009 at 10:52 pm |
the beattitude, you said I have fond memories of my days as a Christian
Do you have any fond memories of worshiping Christ, studying about Christ, talking about Christ, praying to Christ, or being lead by Christ?
If not, I would consider Mat 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”
Notice Christ says, “I never knew you”, not “I once knew you and now I don’t”.
June 12, 2009 at 7:51 am |
I do have fond memories of worshiping Christ, praying to Christ and believing I was lead by Christ. I believed in God, served others, prayed, worshiped and believed god was leading my every step. That doesn’t make it any less delusional.
Now I’ll let you get back to casting out demons and performing miracles.
June 12, 2009 at 11:08 pm |
Ah yes. The old “you probably weren’t a really REAL Christian in the first place” schtick. Because THAT never gets old.
Not only is it horribly patronizing, but it serves as a nice mental insulation against the idea that somebody could actually try your faith and find it wanting.
February 4, 2010 at 4:32 pm |
@Ron
Awesome posts. Authentic, non-invasive and intelligent. I have been reading theBEattitude for the last couple of hours and yours are the only posts that have inspired me to reply so far. A lot of the others frustrate me at the lack of openness and reasoning – coming at an argument with an immovable viewpoint and no room to let the light in (because the author invariably has all the light they can contain).
I wish God would send me some block alphabet letters, as it is he just sends me cloud pictograms (at 7.07am) mainly of smudgey-looking semi-mutilated animals. The last one was of an elephant with no trunk. I get really scared when we have overcast days now.
I think removing labels would be a good start. I personally don’t enjoy being boxed and I suspect that is true for most people who care to think. Atheist/Agnostic/Believer/Catholic/Buddhist means you are sticking your flag in the ground at that point and staking what side you are on. For me it is much more of a continuum with very few hard lines to discriminate between the factions. We are essentially all people, all living on a very insignificant speck in a vast universe which is quite possibly just one of many. We are 3 dimensional beings with a vague understanding of a 4th and theoretical understanding of a few more. If there is a creator then he/she/it would have to exist in a manner that we can’t comprehend as ‘they’ would surely have to be trans-dimensional existing oustide of the multiverse. Us trying to fathom this creator would be like a 2D being trying to get their heads around a third dimension. Thus said what would the ‘creators’ attempts to communicate with their creation look like?
The following confuses me still (there are lots of things that do but this is stuff I’d be keen to hear back other’s POV). Where does morality/good/bad/evil/guilt/forgiveness come from? If there is no reference point then how do we judge these things – is it a global consciousness, an evolved level of social awareness, or just hang-overs from the ‘God of the gaps’ eons? If there is no reference point then what is humanity’s future? Why should anyone bother to give to Haiti? From an evolutionary POV helping other people on the other side of the world doesn’t make a lot of sense to me – how does it fit in with survival of the fittest? Also from the same POV the globe is getting overpopulated – it would be better to allow sea levels to rise and knock off a good chunk of the poorer/sicker parts of the world – this would mean as a species our average standard of living across the board would be much better (I am making a ludicrous argument just to illustrate a point – please don’t send hate mail – I am a sensitive soul)
Peace