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	<title>Comments on: What would it take for me to believe in God?</title>
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	<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/02/what-would-it-take-for-me-to-believe-in-god/</link>
	<description>Happy are those who ask questions.</description>
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		<title>By: adwin</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/02/what-would-it-take-for-me-to-believe-in-god/#comment-7480</link>
		<dc:creator>adwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3123#comment-7480</guid>
		<description>God said : 

[i]Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you,&quot; declares the LORD , &quot;and will bring you back from captivity. [2] I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you,&quot; declares the LORD , &quot;and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.&quot; (Jeremiah 29:12-14 NIV)[/i]

You can experiencing God when you seek Him with all your heart. Being christian and going to church everyday not making you a christian.

Expect to have experience from God through His presence. You can feel His presence everyday when you seek Him with all your heart. I did this and I can meet with my Father. 

Not every Christian can have same experience as Paul but we can have experience in His presence. I have not see God with my naked eyes but I can feel He is near. He watching you as well</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God said : </p>
<p>[i]Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you,&#8221; declares the LORD , &#8220;and will bring you back from captivity. [2] I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you,&#8221; declares the LORD , &#8220;and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.&#8221; (Jeremiah 29:12-14 NIV)[/i]</p>
<p>You can experiencing God when you seek Him with all your heart. Being christian and going to church everyday not making you a christian.</p>
<p>Expect to have experience from God through His presence. You can feel His presence everyday when you seek Him with all your heart. I did this and I can meet with my Father. </p>
<p>Not every Christian can have same experience as Paul but we can have experience in His presence. I have not see God with my naked eyes but I can feel He is near. He watching you as well</p>
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		<title>By: theBEattitude</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/02/what-would-it-take-for-me-to-believe-in-god/#comment-18027</link>
		<dc:creator>theBEattitude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3123#comment-18027</guid>
		<description>Umm ... pretty insane. Your friend needs to go back on his meds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm &#8230; pretty insane. Your friend needs to go back on his meds.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/02/what-would-it-take-for-me-to-believe-in-god/#comment-5782</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3123#comment-5782</guid>
		<description>A friend of mine just put on his Facebook page &quot;Healings, with an emphasis on operating out of LOVE. Witnessed a leg growing out an inch &amp; a half before our eyes. The event took place at a small church in [removed].&quot;

Pretty great!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A friend of mine just put on his Facebook page &#8220;Healings, with an emphasis on operating out of LOVE. Witnessed a leg growing out an inch &amp; a half before our eyes. The event took place at a small church in [removed].&#8221;</p>
<p>Pretty great!</p>
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		<title>By: VM</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/02/what-would-it-take-for-me-to-believe-in-god/#comment-4626</link>
		<dc:creator>VM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3123#comment-4626</guid>
		<description>While this argument may sound childish compared to the well referenced ones above, and it is indeed a bit late, it&#039;s logic, nonetheless, is sound: 

If you believe in a being with the unlimited powers of God on faith, then why not a talking snake? 

It somewhat reminds me of when those believing in creationism attack the theory of evolution on the grounds that it lacks a sound scientific backing, foundation, and proof.

Its the sort of argument where the speaker themselves stands on very shaky ground.

Also, it seems that you are taking your own interpretation of the Bible and stating it as fact and/or forcing it upon others hence negating the very concept of interpretation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While this argument may sound childish compared to the well referenced ones above, and it is indeed a bit late, it&#8217;s logic, nonetheless, is sound: </p>
<p>If you believe in a being with the unlimited powers of God on faith, then why not a talking snake? </p>
<p>It somewhat reminds me of when those believing in creationism attack the theory of evolution on the grounds that it lacks a sound scientific backing, foundation, and proof.</p>
<p>Its the sort of argument where the speaker themselves stands on very shaky ground.</p>
<p>Also, it seems that you are taking your own interpretation of the Bible and stating it as fact and/or forcing it upon others hence negating the very concept of interpretation.</p>
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		<title>By: Janus Grayden</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/02/what-would-it-take-for-me-to-believe-in-god/#comment-4076</link>
		<dc:creator>Janus Grayden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3123#comment-4076</guid>
		<description>You mean the miracles in the Bible that the Bible uses to prove that miracles happened?

If there were some actual miracles taking place that could not have been a result of anything but the supernatural, then sign me up.  Even just one.  Show me a guy who prayed to God and had a severed arm grow back without any medical assistance.  Show me a guy who can move a mountain with his faith.

Also, Abraham, the Father of Faith, only believed because he saw God.  God didn&#039;t just plant a little seed in him and let the faith grow from inside, He actually spoke to Abraham and told him what to do.  Even then, it took Abraham several times of God speaking to him to do something.

Seriously, if this is what qualified for faith, then mountains would be flying every which way and we would be buried in mustard seed trees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mean the miracles in the Bible that the Bible uses to prove that miracles happened?</p>
<p>If there were some actual miracles taking place that could not have been a result of anything but the supernatural, then sign me up.  Even just one.  Show me a guy who prayed to God and had a severed arm grow back without any medical assistance.  Show me a guy who can move a mountain with his faith.</p>
<p>Also, Abraham, the Father of Faith, only believed because he saw God.  God didn&#8217;t just plant a little seed in him and let the faith grow from inside, He actually spoke to Abraham and told him what to do.  Even then, it took Abraham several times of God speaking to him to do something.</p>
<p>Seriously, if this is what qualified for faith, then mountains would be flying every which way and we would be buried in mustard seed trees.</p>
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		<title>By: Cameron</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/02/what-would-it-take-for-me-to-believe-in-god/#comment-4073</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 05:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3123#comment-4073</guid>
		<description>No one is even sure if Paul wrote Hebrews. And if it was Paul, that is not hypocritical. Paul had faith in God&#039;s promises, such as the Resurrection, which he never experienced until he died obviously. Man your arguments get worse and worse.

And people in the OT and the NT saw miracles and still rejected God and Christ! What makes you so sure that you&#039;ll be different?! Further, how would you know it was God when you saw Him do for you what Scripture records Him doing? What standard would you use to know that it was God? And what standard would you use to know that that standard was trustworthy, etc. You&#039;re caught in an infinite regress. 

This is exactly why Biblical faith is not based on human rationality alone (as it is deprived), nor is it irrational, but rather is trans-rational (Rom 10:8). It is a faith given by God, not conjured up by selfish sinners with hearts of stone who are hostile to Him and His real truth (Rom 4:5, Eph 2:8).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one is even sure if Paul wrote Hebrews. And if it was Paul, that is not hypocritical. Paul had faith in God&#8217;s promises, such as the Resurrection, which he never experienced until he died obviously. Man your arguments get worse and worse.</p>
<p>And people in the OT and the NT saw miracles and still rejected God and Christ! What makes you so sure that you&#8217;ll be different?! Further, how would you know it was God when you saw Him do for you what Scripture records Him doing? What standard would you use to know that it was God? And what standard would you use to know that that standard was trustworthy, etc. You&#8217;re caught in an infinite regress. </p>
<p>This is exactly why Biblical faith is not based on human rationality alone (as it is deprived), nor is it irrational, but rather is trans-rational (Rom 10:8). It is a faith given by God, not conjured up by selfish sinners with hearts of stone who are hostile to Him and His real truth (Rom 4:5, Eph 2:8).</p>
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		<title>By: theBEattitude</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/02/what-would-it-take-for-me-to-believe-in-god/#comment-18026</link>
		<dc:creator>theBEattitude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3123#comment-18026</guid>
		<description>Your counter argument is that this invisible god loves us all the same, but plans to send many of us to burn forever in a lake of fire?

&lt;b&gt;How exactly is that just, holy or righteous? That is sadistic.&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your counter argument is that this invisible god loves us all the same, but plans to send many of us to burn forever in a lake of fire?</p>
<p><b>How exactly is that just, holy or righteous? That is sadistic.</b></p>
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		<title>By: Michie DeBerry</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/02/what-would-it-take-for-me-to-believe-in-god/#comment-4047</link>
		<dc:creator>Michie DeBerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3123#comment-4047</guid>
		<description>The best reply I&#039;ve ever heard from your most recent argument is that God loves all people the same, and so when should he intervene? God is love, but God is also just, holy, and righteous. He calls all his people to obedience, and all who reject him are punished eternally in a lake of fire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best reply I&#8217;ve ever heard from your most recent argument is that God loves all people the same, and so when should he intervene? God is love, but God is also just, holy, and righteous. He calls all his people to obedience, and all who reject him are punished eternally in a lake of fire.</p>
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		<title>By: Janus Grayden</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/02/what-would-it-take-for-me-to-believe-in-god/#comment-4046</link>
		<dc:creator>Janus Grayden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3123#comment-4046</guid>
		<description>Empretho, I&#039;m going to assume that you&#039;re a decent fellow.  I honestly do believe that.  Even though we have differences of opinion on religion, I know where you&#039;re coming from.  It&#039;s your way of trying to help and I do appreciate the sentiment.

Now, with that said, even in our human, sinful nature, we care enough about people to help them any time we can.  If I was to see a child getting beaten, I wouldn&#039;t sit around for it.  Even though I wasn&#039;t the one doing it, I would be just as complicit if I did nothing.  It is simply in our nature to preserve our fellow man.

In this vein, God has the power to stop any and all horrific misdeeds and tragedies.  According to your belief, He sees them all and can stop them all.  The only rationale that I have heard for this is that, like a good parent, He sometimes lets people learn from their mistakes.  Another justification along those lines is that sometimes people need disciplining.

I&#039;m not going to assume you were raised the same way I was, but learning lessons and getting punished didn&#039;t involve torture, rape, and murder.  Those aren&#039;t lessons.  Those are tragedies that any decent human being, much less any parent, would never wish on a child.  There&#039;s not a fine line between discipline and outright terror, the difference is rather cut and dry.  If we can tell the difference, why can&#039;t God?

There&#039;s not even room to pull the &quot;He has to govern everyone, these are global punishments or guidances.&quot;  Jesus said that each and every person, specifically, is precious to God.  He has every hair on their head numbered.  There is no such thing as collateral damage in a perfect plan executed by an omnipotent, omniscient being.  By its very definition, a perfect plan is zero-loss.

If you even want to play the just desserts card and say that people who have grown up and made their decisions getting tragedies and injustice thrown their way is God&#039;s disciplinary hand, I&#039;ll let you have it.  That&#039;s a battle I don&#039;t even need to fight.

However, if you honestly believe that part of God&#039;s plan is to allow thousands and countless thousands of children to die annually from the most grotesque and painful diseases imaginable as a result of starvation and poverty, then you seriously need to evaluate your position.  There is no end that requires that.

If you, in your sinful, imperfect condition, recognize these deplorable, horrific things happening to innocent people as being too terrible for words, then what does that say about an omnipotent, omniscient God?

There&#039;s discipline and there&#039;s outright, merciless slaughter.  It really does sicken me when theists work their hardest to blur the line between the two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Empretho, I&#8217;m going to assume that you&#8217;re a decent fellow.  I honestly do believe that.  Even though we have differences of opinion on religion, I know where you&#8217;re coming from.  It&#8217;s your way of trying to help and I do appreciate the sentiment.</p>
<p>Now, with that said, even in our human, sinful nature, we care enough about people to help them any time we can.  If I was to see a child getting beaten, I wouldn&#8217;t sit around for it.  Even though I wasn&#8217;t the one doing it, I would be just as complicit if I did nothing.  It is simply in our nature to preserve our fellow man.</p>
<p>In this vein, God has the power to stop any and all horrific misdeeds and tragedies.  According to your belief, He sees them all and can stop them all.  The only rationale that I have heard for this is that, like a good parent, He sometimes lets people learn from their mistakes.  Another justification along those lines is that sometimes people need disciplining.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not going to assume you were raised the same way I was, but learning lessons and getting punished didn&#8217;t involve torture, rape, and murder.  Those aren&#8217;t lessons.  Those are tragedies that any decent human being, much less any parent, would never wish on a child.  There&#8217;s not a fine line between discipline and outright terror, the difference is rather cut and dry.  If we can tell the difference, why can&#8217;t God?</p>
<p>There&#8217;s not even room to pull the &#8220;He has to govern everyone, these are global punishments or guidances.&#8221;  Jesus said that each and every person, specifically, is precious to God.  He has every hair on their head numbered.  There is no such thing as collateral damage in a perfect plan executed by an omnipotent, omniscient being.  By its very definition, a perfect plan is zero-loss.</p>
<p>If you even want to play the just desserts card and say that people who have grown up and made their decisions getting tragedies and injustice thrown their way is God&#8217;s disciplinary hand, I&#8217;ll let you have it.  That&#8217;s a battle I don&#8217;t even need to fight.</p>
<p>However, if you honestly believe that part of God&#8217;s plan is to allow thousands and countless thousands of children to die annually from the most grotesque and painful diseases imaginable as a result of starvation and poverty, then you seriously need to evaluate your position.  There is no end that requires that.</p>
<p>If you, in your sinful, imperfect condition, recognize these deplorable, horrific things happening to innocent people as being too terrible for words, then what does that say about an omnipotent, omniscient God?</p>
<p>There&#8217;s discipline and there&#8217;s outright, merciless slaughter.  It really does sicken me when theists work their hardest to blur the line between the two.</p>
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		<title>By: Janus Grayden</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/02/what-would-it-take-for-me-to-believe-in-god/#comment-4042</link>
		<dc:creator>Janus Grayden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3123#comment-4042</guid>
		<description>So, wait a minute.  You&#039;re bringing up the Bible as a source to prove the Bible?  I would ask you to do better than that, but I know you can&#039;t.  There isn&#039;t anything.  I even refrained from posting a good article about the only two times Josephus mentioned Jesus and how they&#039;re categorically determined to be completely out of keeping with Josephus&#039; writing.

Here&#039;s the gist of a fraction of it. The most famous passage of which is when Josephus calls Jesus &quot;The Christ&quot; and yet Josephus lived his entire life devoutly Jewish.  He also wrote under the patronage of the Roman Empire.  Mystery cults were getting hammered down hard by Rome and Christianity was nothing special in that regard.  Josephus wrote nothing but derision for those types of sects.  He had to.  If he didn&#039;t, he would have been executed along with the people he was defending.

Not to mention the fact that people only had record of that tidbit in the 4th or 5th century, when Christianity was in full swing and had been declared a state religion.  How about that?

As for keeping tight lipped, didn&#039;t Jesus also tell his disciples to literally go to every city they could and talk about him?  What was that whole bit about the condemnatory shaking off the sandals when cities wouldn&#039;t receive the message of Jesus?  I mean, this is a guy who promised hellfire on the cities that weren&#039;t interested.

Matthew 10:14 and 15

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

I don&#039;t know what you&#039;ve heard, but the fates of Sodom and Gomorrha were widely regarded as times when God was especially harsh on people, to the point that even Abraham was begging God to show mercy.  Jesus is calling down vengeance even more wrathful than the God of the Old Testament?  So much for the whole &quot;merciful Savior&quot; thing.

Weren&#039;t there also thousands upon thousands of people who saw Jesus work miracles?  These were people who presumably were trying to make him king, yet nobody thought to write anything down?  Not even people witnessing the phenomena?  There are tomes and tomes of information of daily Jerusalem life around the supposed time of Jesus, yet nobody heard of 5000 men, not even counting women and children, feasting from mere scraps?

Didn&#039;t 500 people see Jesus fly into the heavens?  Not to mention the dead clawing their way out of their tombs during the crucifixion.

None of that merited ANYTHING?  This was a time when historians were busy cataloging every event they could.  The New Testament mentions scribes aplenty.  Their JOB was to write down things.  That&#039;s all they did all day long.  Not one of them even mentioned Jesus derisively?  For all the hatred of Jesus, you think he would have warranted more scorn than any of the other leaders of the mystery cults of the age, but the Romans were awfully silent for someone who was actually processed through their legal system.

Oh, and the &quot;Case for Christ?&quot;  It&#039;s obviously not the testimony of an atheist.  The only people who I&#039;ve ever seen impressed with that &quot;evidence&quot; were already convinced of its veracity in the first place.  They&#039;re common Christian catch-phrases.

It would be like me saying that I never watch basketball, but I was won over when I saw a Division II college coach make good use of his deep bench to draw out the opponents big men and really spread the paint.

Stop throwing me softballs.  Really.  Part of me wishes that you actually had something to reference.  At least that might be sporting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, wait a minute.  You&#8217;re bringing up the Bible as a source to prove the Bible?  I would ask you to do better than that, but I know you can&#8217;t.  There isn&#8217;t anything.  I even refrained from posting a good article about the only two times Josephus mentioned Jesus and how they&#8217;re categorically determined to be completely out of keeping with Josephus&#8217; writing.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the gist of a fraction of it. The most famous passage of which is when Josephus calls Jesus &#8220;The Christ&#8221; and yet Josephus lived his entire life devoutly Jewish.  He also wrote under the patronage of the Roman Empire.  Mystery cults were getting hammered down hard by Rome and Christianity was nothing special in that regard.  Josephus wrote nothing but derision for those types of sects.  He had to.  If he didn&#8217;t, he would have been executed along with the people he was defending.</p>
<p>Not to mention the fact that people only had record of that tidbit in the 4th or 5th century, when Christianity was in full swing and had been declared a state religion.  How about that?</p>
<p>As for keeping tight lipped, didn&#8217;t Jesus also tell his disciples to literally go to every city they could and talk about him?  What was that whole bit about the condemnatory shaking off the sandals when cities wouldn&#8217;t receive the message of Jesus?  I mean, this is a guy who promised hellfire on the cities that weren&#8217;t interested.</p>
<p>Matthew 10:14 and 15</p>
<p>14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.<br />
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what you&#8217;ve heard, but the fates of Sodom and Gomorrha were widely regarded as times when God was especially harsh on people, to the point that even Abraham was begging God to show mercy.  Jesus is calling down vengeance even more wrathful than the God of the Old Testament?  So much for the whole &#8220;merciful Savior&#8221; thing.</p>
<p>Weren&#8217;t there also thousands upon thousands of people who saw Jesus work miracles?  These were people who presumably were trying to make him king, yet nobody thought to write anything down?  Not even people witnessing the phenomena?  There are tomes and tomes of information of daily Jerusalem life around the supposed time of Jesus, yet nobody heard of 5000 men, not even counting women and children, feasting from mere scraps?</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t 500 people see Jesus fly into the heavens?  Not to mention the dead clawing their way out of their tombs during the crucifixion.</p>
<p>None of that merited ANYTHING?  This was a time when historians were busy cataloging every event they could.  The New Testament mentions scribes aplenty.  Their JOB was to write down things.  That&#8217;s all they did all day long.  Not one of them even mentioned Jesus derisively?  For all the hatred of Jesus, you think he would have warranted more scorn than any of the other leaders of the mystery cults of the age, but the Romans were awfully silent for someone who was actually processed through their legal system.</p>
<p>Oh, and the &#8220;Case for Christ?&#8221;  It&#8217;s obviously not the testimony of an atheist.  The only people who I&#8217;ve ever seen impressed with that &#8220;evidence&#8221; were already convinced of its veracity in the first place.  They&#8217;re common Christian catch-phrases.</p>
<p>It would be like me saying that I never watch basketball, but I was won over when I saw a Division II college coach make good use of his deep bench to draw out the opponents big men and really spread the paint.</p>
<p>Stop throwing me softballs.  Really.  Part of me wishes that you actually had something to reference.  At least that might be sporting.</p>
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