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	<title>Comments on: Step aside Jesus Camp. Dawkins starts an atheist kid camp.</title>
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	<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/28/step-aside-jesus-camp-dawkins-starts-an-atheist-kid-camp/</link>
	<description>Happy are those who ask questions.</description>
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		<title>By: Wilhelm Scream</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/28/step-aside-jesus-camp-dawkins-starts-an-atheist-kid-camp/#comment-15831</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilhelm Scream</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3368#comment-15831</guid>
		<description>Yes, I was talking about Jesus Camp. Sorry, I didn&#039;t make that very clear! :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I was talking about Jesus Camp. Sorry, I didn&#8217;t make that very clear! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Camp Quest UK - The first childrens summer camp for science, philosophy, critical thinking and atheist / secular free thought! CQUK &#187; News &#187; Response to the Sunday Times</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/28/step-aside-jesus-camp-dawkins-starts-an-atheist-kid-camp/#comment-15830</link>
		<dc:creator>Camp Quest UK - The first childrens summer camp for science, philosophy, critical thinking and atheist / secular free thought! CQUK &#187; News &#187; Response to the Sunday Times</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3368#comment-15830</guid>
		<description>[...] The BEattitude blog [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The BEattitude blog [...]</p>
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		<title>By: barriejohn</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/28/step-aside-jesus-camp-dawkins-starts-an-atheist-kid-camp/#comment-15829</link>
		<dc:creator>barriejohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3368#comment-15829</guid>
		<description>Some excellent points here!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some excellent points here!</p>
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		<title>By: barriejohn</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/28/step-aside-jesus-camp-dawkins-starts-an-atheist-kid-camp/#comment-15828</link>
		<dc:creator>barriejohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3368#comment-15828</guid>
		<description>SPOT ON!! I may say more along these lines when I have more time, but I know JUST what you are talking about here! Those who have never been involved are living in cloud cuckoo land, I`m afraid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SPOT ON!! I may say more along these lines when I have more time, but I know JUST what you are talking about here! Those who have never been involved are living in cloud cuckoo land, I`m afraid.</p>
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		<title>By: barriejohn</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/28/step-aside-jesus-camp-dawkins-starts-an-atheist-kid-camp/#comment-15827</link>
		<dc:creator>barriejohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3368#comment-15827</guid>
		<description>This is blatantly dishonest, isn`t it? I searched the small print thoroughly, but nowhere does it say &lt;i&gt;&quot;We are going to brainwash your kids, and turn them into little Soldiers of Christ&quot;&lt;/i&gt;, which is what it`s all about really!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is blatantly dishonest, isn`t it? I searched the small print thoroughly, but nowhere does it say <i>&#8220;We are going to brainwash your kids, and turn them into little Soldiers of Christ&#8221;</i>, which is what it`s all about really!!</p>
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		<title>By: Reginald Selkirk</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/28/step-aside-jesus-camp-dawkins-starts-an-atheist-kid-camp/#comment-15826</link>
		<dc:creator>Reginald Selkirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3368#comment-15826</guid>
		<description>Meanwhile at a Baptist church summer camp near me:

&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://polar.rbpstore.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Polar Extremes&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
All of Me, All-Out for God
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Kids, if you&#039;re going to either the North Pole or the South Pole, take along some good secular insulated clothing and survival gear, because prayer doesn&#039;t work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meanwhile at a Baptist church summer camp near me:</p>
<p><b><a href="http://polar.rbpstore.org/" rel="nofollow">Polar Extremes</a></b></p>
<blockquote><p>
All of Me, All-Out for God
</p></blockquote>
<p>Kids, if you&#8217;re going to either the North Pole or the South Pole, take along some good secular insulated clothing and survival gear, because prayer doesn&#8217;t work.</p>
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		<title>By: samanthamj</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/28/step-aside-jesus-camp-dawkins-starts-an-atheist-kid-camp/#comment-15825</link>
		<dc:creator>samanthamj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3368#comment-15825</guid>
		<description>theBe - hey... you&#039;ve got a point. ??

George??!?!  Is that YOU!?!?!?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>theBe &#8211; hey&#8230; you&#8217;ve got a point. ??</p>
<p>George??!?!  Is that YOU!?!?!?</p>
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		<title>By: LeavingReligion</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/28/step-aside-jesus-camp-dawkins-starts-an-atheist-kid-camp/#comment-15824</link>
		<dc:creator>LeavingReligion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3368#comment-15824</guid>
		<description>As someone who grew up going to Christian Summer Camp, and, as someone who eventually became a camp counselor at said camp... no, I would not send my kid (if I had one) to Dawkins camp.  I would not send them to a Christian camp either.  I would choose a camp that is &#039;just a camp&#039;.

Given the nature of summer camp, and the amount of persuasion that goes on there (if it&#039;s a &#039;camp with a mission&#039;), I&#039;d rather not subject my kid to that.  There are plenty of other ways for them to learn various philosophies/theologies.  Ways that do not include an artificial high from doing something everyone else is doing... that ends in a hard crash when out of the environment.

BTW, Camp Counselors go through the same high and eventual crash.  Even those who stay with the church... it is inevitable.  Life is not like camp.  I saw some people become full time camp staff, and they kind of stayed &#039;kid like&#039;.  It was sad, actually.  They don&#039;t seem to understand why the rest of the world doesn&#039;t think dressing up and playing games is a little odd when you&#039;re 40.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who grew up going to Christian Summer Camp, and, as someone who eventually became a camp counselor at said camp&#8230; no, I would not send my kid (if I had one) to Dawkins camp.  I would not send them to a Christian camp either.  I would choose a camp that is &#8216;just a camp&#8217;.</p>
<p>Given the nature of summer camp, and the amount of persuasion that goes on there (if it&#8217;s a &#8216;camp with a mission&#8217;), I&#8217;d rather not subject my kid to that.  There are plenty of other ways for them to learn various philosophies/theologies.  Ways that do not include an artificial high from doing something everyone else is doing&#8230; that ends in a hard crash when out of the environment.</p>
<p>BTW, Camp Counselors go through the same high and eventual crash.  Even those who stay with the church&#8230; it is inevitable.  Life is not like camp.  I saw some people become full time camp staff, and they kind of stayed &#8216;kid like&#8217;.  It was sad, actually.  They don&#8217;t seem to understand why the rest of the world doesn&#8217;t think dressing up and playing games is a little odd when you&#8217;re 40.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul in Canada</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/28/step-aside-jesus-camp-dawkins-starts-an-atheist-kid-camp/#comment-15823</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul in Canada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3368#comment-15823</guid>
		<description>My wife and I met while working on staff at a Christian camp.   It was not even close to the one in the video.   What you&#039;re seeing at Jesus Camp is the product of the Charismatic or Pentecostal fringe, and even among adults in that sector of Christianity, there are some who would disagree with this type of approach.   The people I know in what we call &quot;Children&#039;s Ministry&quot; would follow a much more balanced path.

What I want to address however is the whole &quot;camp&quot; concept.   Take a kid away from home, away from their computer or video games or television and put them in a residential situation for a week with strangers, add in lots of blue sky and fresh air, and frankly a kid can be very vulnerable.   I&#039;m not saying they are open to the power of suggestion, but they are willing to re-examine basic concepts and beliefs.  It&#039;s a time that calls for a very cautious, very careful strategy.   It should also be noted that kids (and adults, too) who make &quot;decisions&quot; based on guilt, fear or because others are doing it don&#039;t &quot;stick&quot; to either their beliefs or the organization

However, it&#039;s also a time that also leaves some of the adult leaders, staff and volunteers very vulnerable; vulnerable to extremes; vulnerable to want to do &quot;whatever it takes&quot; to bring change into the lives of impressionable children; vulnerable to want to take those kids to making &quot;next steps.&quot;

So no matter what the founder&#039;s intentions when starting a residential camp program, there&#039;s no guarantee that the interpretation of those intentions by leaders, staff and volunteers won&#039;t leave Camp Quest looking a lot like Jesus Camp.

Furthermore, there&#039;s nothing wrong with teaching kids that there is an ideological battle waging, but the problem with the battle motif is that if someone &quot;wins&quot; it means someone else &quot;loses.&quot;   What happens when the kids get older and find it&#039;s actually a lot more complicated than that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife and I met while working on staff at a Christian camp.   It was not even close to the one in the video.   What you&#8217;re seeing at Jesus Camp is the product of the Charismatic or Pentecostal fringe, and even among adults in that sector of Christianity, there are some who would disagree with this type of approach.   The people I know in what we call &#8220;Children&#8217;s Ministry&#8221; would follow a much more balanced path.</p>
<p>What I want to address however is the whole &#8220;camp&#8221; concept.   Take a kid away from home, away from their computer or video games or television and put them in a residential situation for a week with strangers, add in lots of blue sky and fresh air, and frankly a kid can be very vulnerable.   I&#8217;m not saying they are open to the power of suggestion, but they are willing to re-examine basic concepts and beliefs.  It&#8217;s a time that calls for a very cautious, very careful strategy.   It should also be noted that kids (and adults, too) who make &#8220;decisions&#8221; based on guilt, fear or because others are doing it don&#8217;t &#8220;stick&#8221; to either their beliefs or the organization</p>
<p>However, it&#8217;s also a time that also leaves some of the adult leaders, staff and volunteers very vulnerable; vulnerable to extremes; vulnerable to want to do &#8220;whatever it takes&#8221; to bring change into the lives of impressionable children; vulnerable to want to take those kids to making &#8220;next steps.&#8221;</p>
<p>So no matter what the founder&#8217;s intentions when starting a residential camp program, there&#8217;s no guarantee that the interpretation of those intentions by leaders, staff and volunteers won&#8217;t leave Camp Quest looking a lot like Jesus Camp.</p>
<p>Furthermore, there&#8217;s nothing wrong with teaching kids that there is an ideological battle waging, but the problem with the battle motif is that if someone &#8220;wins&#8221; it means someone else &#8220;loses.&#8221;   What happens when the kids get older and find it&#8217;s actually a lot more complicated than that?</p>
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		<title>By: theBEattitude</title>
		<link>http://thebeattitude.com/2009/06/28/step-aside-jesus-camp-dawkins-starts-an-atheist-kid-camp/#comment-15822</link>
		<dc:creator>theBEattitude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebeattitude.com/?p=3368#comment-15822</guid>
		<description>Sherry–
My intention is not insult Christians as a whole. However, I will call a Christian person out if they act in hypocritical or ridiculous ways. Sherry, you can believe whatever you want to, it really doesn&#039;t matter to me. And I don&#039;t disrespect you, I only question what you believe. At times I do trivialize Christianity because I view it as trivial. You view me as infantile, so we&#039;ll call it even.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sherry–<br />
My intention is not insult Christians as a whole. However, I will call a Christian person out if they act in hypocritical or ridiculous ways. Sherry, you can believe whatever you want to, it really doesn&#8217;t matter to me. And I don&#8217;t disrespect you, I only question what you believe. At times I do trivialize Christianity because I view it as trivial. You view me as infantile, so we&#8217;ll call it even.</p>
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