Did Jesus keep secrets, give special treatment to some and intentionally confuse others so they wouldn’t be forgiven?
Yes.
The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
Matthew 13:10-11
He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that,
” ‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’“
Mark 4:11, Luke 8:10
He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything.
Mark 4:34“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Peter answered, “The Christ of God.” Jesus strictly warned them not to tell this to anyone.
Luke 9:20-21, Mark 8:29-30
Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.
Matthew 16:20
No.
“I have spoken openly to the world,” Jesus replied. “I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret.
John 18:20
The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.“ Then Jesus declared, “I who speak to you am he.”
John 4:25-26
I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism.
Acts 10:34
God does not show favoritism.
Romans 2:11
Tags: God, Atheist, Bible, Hell, Atheism, Jesus, Conflicting, Judgement, Christ, False, Flawed, Inconsistent, Invalid, Deceive, Secret, Parables, Trick, Credibility
November 3, 2009 at 12:43 pm |
The reason he strictly warned them not to tell anyone he was the Christos is because he was the Chrestos not the Christos. But the writers of the Catholic Bible would not listen to him on that point and in seeking to change him from the Chrestos of the Better God to the Christos of the OT God of Genocide, they have produced much confusion in their book. They should have just accepted Marcion’s Bible instead of appointing themselves as prophets with no calling from God, unless their calling was from the God of this world (the OT God) for it was not from the Better God.
November 3, 2009 at 12:56 pm |
It’s odd. Set out like this it’s so bloody obvious and yet I missed this one. Thanks for laying it out.
November 3, 2009 at 3:15 pm |
The quotes from Matthew, Mark and Luke were from a time early in the ministry of Jesus. The disciples were not ready to carry the message – that is why Jesus cautioned them not to proclaim him as the messiah. Everything had to point to the cross in Jerusalem on Passover.
If you look at Luke’s gospel, the disciples can’t do anything right – this climaxes with Peter’s denial of Jesus on the night of his arrest.
It is only after the coming of the Holy Spirit that the disciples – now apostles – are equipped to proclaim the word. And this they do successfully.
November 3, 2009 at 3:45 pm |
That doesn’t explain why Jesus intentionally confused people so they would:
or why he said:
This is deception, plain and simple. If this guy was actually the prophosised Messiah, he intentionally confused people so they would reject him and be sent to hell.
The story of Jesus reads exactly how every cult in history has formed. A special “chosen” group of people that will spend eternity in some sort of heaven while everyone else burns for eternity. A self proclaimed leader that claims to be ordained by god. A command to follow him even if it means death. Today it is an accepted religion because it has millions of members, most of which don’t even know what the Bible says.
November 3, 2009 at 5:07 pm |
Nice try Paul. Now please amuse us further by shoehorning Luke 9:1-6 and 10:1-17 into your tortuous apologetic.
November 4, 2009 at 11:03 am |
Luke 9 reads:
“When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.”
Nothing about proclaiming Jesus as the messiah, just healing and preaching the kingdom of God. This is just before Peter confesses that Jesus is the Christ.
Luke 10 describes Jesus sending advance men into towns he planned to visit.
November 9, 2009 at 2:46 pm |
Wasn’t there a prophecy about that?
November 11, 2009 at 10:23 am |
POINT: The Bible is the only prophetic book — meaning — prophecies written years ago (check your abacus) by many different writers (check the writing styles) have been and are coming to pass.
November 18, 2009 at 1:20 pm |
the bible is the only prophetic book? it has come to pass?
yeah cus the temples stones are in crumbles and he has returned before some in that generation have tasted of death.
[waits for the plain words to be twisted and reinterpreted]
November 18, 2009 at 2:00 pm |
Nope, no twisting!
November 3, 2009 at 3:47 pm |
Paul, you are just plain wrong. The woman at the well incident in John is chronologically earlier since Jesus begins his ministry in John much earlier than in the other gospels. He begins while John B is still at large in John and already has all his apostles too at that time! But in the synoptics he begins after John B is thrown in prison and then goes looking for men to appoint as apostles. In John, Peter and Andrew follow Jesus from the Jordan river because John B says ‘behold the lamb of God’ but in the synoptics Jesus meets them on the sea of Galilee and says ‘follow me and I will make you fishers of men’ and they mysteriously obey. You are blind to not see these things. When the Catholics took it upon themselves to Judaize Jesus from Christos to Chrestos they caused much confusion.
November 4, 2009 at 11:10 am |
“When the Catholics took it upon themselves to Judaize Jesus from Christos to Chrestos they caused much confusion”
Well I think the Catholics attempted to restore Jesus to his proper context – a Jew living in Roman-occupied Palastine. Without that context much of the ministry of Jesus would make no sense. Remove the OT from Jesus’ interpretation of Hebrew law, for example, and you have more confusion than if the OT remains as the background to the life of Jesus.
Marcion wanted to surgically remove Jesus from his own culture – it would never have worked.
November 3, 2009 at 3:52 pm |
The reason the Catholic canonm presents Jesus as confusing people on purpose is because they try and force him to be the OT God and in the OT Isaiah says “go make this people’s heart fat that seeing they may not see…” It is an instruction from the OT God to Isaiah himself, but the Catholic editors who polluted the gospel by splitting it into four and Judaizing it have turned it into a prophecy about Jesus as they attempt to do with almost everything int the OT by twisting and contorting it.
November 3, 2009 at 4:01 pm |
Typo above. “Judaize Jesus from Christos to Chrestos” is backwards.
November 3, 2009 at 4:04 pm |
Isn’t it great how there is always a reason but only after you do some serious twisting and turning. Paul don’t you see what you are doing? You do with the bible what is done by politicians and clergy do when they get caught with their pants down.
November 3, 2009 at 6:43 pm |
Explain why in Luke 9:55 Jesus accuses Elijah of having called down fire from heaven to kill people by a different spirit than his Father when he says to James and John who wish to imitate Elijah “you know not what spirit ye are of”. I know the answer is that the OT God is a totally different God from his Father, for they are opponents. But what will ‘orthodoxy’ say??? It can only read on quickly and ignore it. Catholicism and its redaction of the gospel by splitting it into four and Judaizing it has brought so much confusion.
November 18, 2009 at 1:22 pm |
considering there is no god(s), people can’t call down fire like this, and this event never happened, and none of these people actually historically exist.
well i don’t have a problem explaining this. it’s fiction, and bad inconsistent fiction by committee at that.
November 18, 2009 at 2:06 pm |
Doh. Actually, JC was talking about James and John having a “bad” spirit (remember, they were known as the “sons of thunder”?). They wanted to call down fire to kill a bunch of people … and JC was like, “Uh, no.”
November 3, 2009 at 8:26 pm |
I curious Rev, and I mean this respectfully; what draws you to an Atheist website? From what I’ve read, most people that came to this website, formally sat in pews, and did jumping jacks for Jesus on Sunday morning. For me, I was big believer, board of trustees, thought I had God all figured out. I sat in church alongside those that had similar beliefs to mine. It would never have occurred to me to go troll around an atheist, or Buddhist or Muslim website to argue the minutia.
People I think by nature are drawn to groups of likeminded people. I was initially drawn to atheists websites in search of answers, but now it’s more to be with a group of likeminded people. My transition was not one of ….ok everyone, I’m here and I’m and atheist. I spent time falling away. But eventually I had to come out of the closet.
Even now, it would not seem fun, to go hang at a Christian website and mock them and say, oh your Jesus us fake and your Sky Daddy is a killer. So what it Rev. You think you’ll salvage a soul? Did God send you here? Or were you like some of the rest of us, just looking for likeminded people to hand out with?
November 18, 2009 at 1:27 pm |
he probably doesn’t think he can save a soul. most of us have denied the holy spirit. thats an unforgivable offense (not rape murder cannibalism or genocide but denial of the holy spirit!). he can’t save us no matter how hard he tries. (that is if he where right).
my guess, and it’s purely psychoanalysis from a layperson through the translation of the text on the screen here so take it with a HUGE grain of salt, is that he is either threatened by the idea that people disagree with him and is trying to convince us of it simply to limit that threat to his ideas, OR the more likely reason is that he is trying to arm himself with better arguments to keep his flock.
frankly I welcome him no matter what point of view he has (these or some other). If it’s the first then he is on the road to disbelief (chants: join us join us join us! hehe). if it’s the second then when he presents his ‘arguments’ to those questioning most will find them just as unsatisfying as we do.
If it’s some other reason then hey, we get someone to bounce ideas off of.
November 3, 2009 at 9:01 pm |
@Elbogz. First its Rey not Rev. And now for my answer. Dualism in that it posits two gods might seem to be further away from atheism than monotheism. But in reality since it rejects one of the two gods as evil it occupies a middle position between atheism and monotheism. Much of what makes you an atheist makes me a dualist. Perhaps you.beacame an atheists because you oppose the genocides of the OT as immoral and refuse to excuse them. That’s one reason I became a dualist. Perhaps you became an atheists because of all the contradictions in the Catholic canon. These contradictions showed me that Marcion was right and the Catholics did add all the birth material in the gospels and the supposed OT prophecy fulfillments. Perhaps you became an atheist because you can’t see how a perfectly good god could make a world so messed up and full of misery. Again, this makes me a dualist, one god is the god of this world who made this subpar rock and the other is from outside our universe who tries to make this world a better place by promoting morality and who will save the souls of moral men from the evil god’s plan to torment them more after death in hell. Perhaps though this doesn’t answer the question. I suppose the answer is that there is an alternate interpretation to why the Bible is so contradictory. You say its contradictory because there is no god. I say its contradictory because there are two and this is what the original religion Jesus taught said but the Catholics corrupted everything by trying to make there only be one and by killing off the sects that taught the original dualistic message. For from the beinning to the 15th century there were dualistic Christian sects that were large and prosperous but yet persecuted by the Catholics, and finally destroyed by the Inquisition and the Protestant Reformation (for the Reformers were persecutors too). The Marcionites were first, even before Catholicism. Then there were the Manicheans, the Paulicians, the Bogomils, the Cathars, and the Albigenses. There were probably many others too. They followed the tru message of Jesus, nonviolencea, and suffered persecutions at the hands of the ling scum who perverted the message. The true Bible was burned and destroyed. But the message persists nonetheless even in the corrupt Bible the Catholics forged and in the writings of there ‘fathers’ we find references to what all these sects taught, even quotes of some of their leaders, from which the truth can be culled even still. I suppose then my point is to show that just because the Catholic Bible is corrupt doesn’t mean Jesus was a loony tune nut or a fiction. His original religion was dualistic and the current mess of the Catholic Bible points back to men like Marcion who the Catholics labelled as ‘heretics’ who used a totally different Bible and taught the sermon on the mount without the confusion of ‘think not that I have come to destroy the law’ and the OT genocides and such-like.
November 5, 2009 at 12:14 pm |
What I find remarkable about this whole conversation is that people are so impassioned about it. I always wonder: what is the genesis of such impassioned argument about the existence of God? What is the prize of winning such arguments? Is righteousness the prize? Does one man get to announce superiority over another? What is the goal of all this passion? It almost seems to propel itself in our culture doesn’t it? What is it trying to achieve? Dominance? Superiority? It’s truly fascinating. And I am not being condescending. I ask because if the goal of such debate is intellectual superiority, the Christian needn’t participate for he is commanded by his lord not to.
November 5, 2009 at 1:28 pm |
I am not impassioned about this conversation because I’m trying to prove my intellectual superiority. The purpose of this blog and this series of posts is to point to the many things that lead to my rejection of Christianity just over a year ago. This post merely illustrates obviously conflicting Bible verses. If I am to believe a god inspired these texts, it doesn’t paint a picture of a perfect god. Very far from perfect it when you look at the Bible in its entirety. The good the bad and the ugly.
I am impassioned about discussing the topic of religion, because I think human beings can do better today than continuing to believe primitive folklore and highly flawed ancient testimony by unknown authors. Especially when these archaic beliefs hold back the progress of science and humanity. I look forward to the day when people stop killing each other because they believe in a different deity. Morality isn’t exclusive to Christianity or any other religion. The main benefit of most religions is to help people cope with the fear of their own mortality.
I would love to believe their is an eternal paradise waiting for me after death. But it will take much more than a poorly written book to convince me this version of god is true. We just agree to disagree. And your opinion is welcome here.
November 5, 2009 at 1:05 pm |
I am no theologian, but I think if everyone believed and understood at that time, before the cross, then they wouldn’t have crucified him, and he needed to be crucified.After the cross, then it was for everybody to understand and believe; the apostles and disciples went and spread the gospel of Jesus Christ so that everyone could hear and believe and be forgiven…so “that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life”.Many of the people that could not understand the words of Jesus then, I think they believed after the cross…
November 5, 2009 at 1:44 pm |
Since there were no Christians before Christ was born, how did one go about avoiding eternal damnation in a lake of fire? Since Christ is the only way, what exactly was the way before he was born?
November 9, 2009 at 2:48 pm |
Romans 1:17, “For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
November 11, 2009 at 10:25 am
POINT: Like Romans 1:17 says, “by faith” — the OT believers needed to believe on Christ (that he was coming, think Hebrews 11) to be saved. Abraham is the most plain example of “saved by faith”.
Romans 4:3, “For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.”
November 6, 2009 at 4:38 pm |
Someone pointed me to this blog and said I would find it interesting. It is. I’m glad I stopped by. Entertaining as well as provocative. Maybe we need to act our way into a new way of thinking rather than think our way into a new way of acting?
November 9, 2009 at 2:52 pm |
It probably had something to do with those who believed Jesus was Messiah versus those who did not believe Jesus was the Messiah (seeing see not; hearing they hear not, neither do they understand).
November 9, 2009 at 3:24 pm |
Rich, you’ve posted like 10 comments in a row and not one of them even has a point. They’re just cheesy potshot scripture quotations that mean nothing.
November 11, 2009 at 10:21 am |
Sorry, I’m actually trying to respond WITH points — which comments need more clarity?
And I’d been uber busy for the past couple months (and am still
, but you can expect like 10 comments to start dripping in again.