The fruit of God’s spirit is peace, love and gentleness.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
-Galatians 5:22
The fruit of God’s spirit is vengeance, rage and fury.
As he approached Lehi, the Philistines came toward him shouting. The Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power. The ropes on his arms became like charred flax, and the bindings dropped from his hands. Finding a fresh jawbone of a donkey, he grabbed it and struck down a thousand men.
-Judges 15:14-15
The next day an evil spirit from God came forcefully upon Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the harp, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand and he hurled it, saying to himself, “I’ll pin David to the wall.” But David eluded him twice.
-1 Samuel 18:10-12
Tags: Bible, Christianity, Conflicting, Contradicting, Contradiction, Fallible, Flaw, Flawed, Fruits of the Spirit, God, Hate, Inconsistency, Inconsistent, Jesus, Love, Vengence
February 4, 2010 at 10:47 pm |
Different gods dude.
Judges 15:14-15; 1 Samuel 18:10-12 = Demiurge.
Galatians 5:22 (Marcionite version) = Chrestos.
February 5, 2010 at 3:42 am |
Which is conflicting with the idea of a non-changing god (but whichever, it’s stupid nonetheless)
February 5, 2010 at 4:49 pm |
No it isn’t. The OT god says “I don’t change” and he doesn’t. He just gets his butt whipped by a bigger God.
February 5, 2010 at 8:54 am |
I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.
-Malachi 3:6
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
-Hebrews 13:8
February 5, 2010 at 11:01 am |
And yet another separate interpretation. >_>
February 5, 2010 at 4:52 pm |
“I Yahweh do not change.” (Malachi 3:6) And he didn’t. He’s still causing wars and genocides all throughout the earth.
“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.” (Hebrews 13:8) He will always be better than Yahweh and save souls from him.
February 5, 2010 at 5:12 am |
I love these types of verses and the defenses used by christians to explain them away. We know they will use the normal out of context defense and then when that fails they will fall back on we can’t truly know the mind of god.
February 5, 2010 at 9:03 am |
Hey, no contradiction. God’s spirit is like one of those grafted apple trees that bears five kinds of fruit.
February 5, 2010 at 6:44 pm |
Matthew 7:16-18 “Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? (17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. (18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.”
February 6, 2010 at 9:48 am |
Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Artichokes.
February 7, 2010 at 2:49 am
Artichokes make grapes grow out of thorns and figs out of thistles?
February 5, 2010 at 6:44 pm |
Matthew 7:19 “Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.”
February 6, 2010 at 9:51 am |
Matthew 7:19 “Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.”
Matthew wasn’t much into horticulture. Many plants are valued for properties besides fruit-bearing. consider oak trees. Acorns are too bitter fro human consumption. Many attempts have been made to breed better tasting acorns, all have been unsuccessful. And yet oaks are still grown and prized for the quality of their wood, which is not cast into the fire but used to build many things.
February 8, 2010 at 11:56 am |
Maybe some people prize its wood, but it’s an evil grain that dulls your chisels. And its not even that hard ARGHHHHH!
February 8, 2010 at 3:55 pm |
Ash trees also do not bear edible fruit, and they have a more even grain than oak.
February 8, 2010 at 3:45 pm |
The judges passage you are using is referring to Samson Protecting himself from certain death. Yes the Spirit of the Lord came upon Him and was able to break free and then protect Himself. Samson was to be the judge for Israel the next 20 years… They had no kings only judges at this time. Samson was to stay alive for his job of Judging Israel. He was tied up and bound (certain death)… God intervened and He was able to live.
The Passage of 1 Samuel as well… talking about the evil spirit coming from the lord. If you read the story of King Saul you will understand that He went away from the lord… If scripture is correct (which I do know to be truth)… Everything was made by God…. Now if this is the case satan came from God and so did “evil spirits”… Now this does not mean He made evil things…. God is good. Satan and the ones that followed him decided to rebel against God causing them to become evil. So there are evil spirit. Now back to Saul. He was going further and further from God. With this happening it allows for the opportunity for evil spirits to enter into Him. We established that evil is here (through Satan and his followers)… they came from God… therefore an evil spirit from God came onto Saul. Does this mean that God created an evil spirit and put it into Saul… no.
thanks for letting anyone comment on your page.
February 8, 2010 at 4:10 pm |
” If scripture is correct (which I do know to be truth)…” How do you know this?
” God is good” Are you sure of this? Doesn’t the bible say god created all good and evil?
February 9, 2010 at 6:42 pm |
Lots of liberal Christians realize that the understanding of God has changed over time and don’t homogenize the Bible nor believe everything it says — thank god.
February 10, 2010 at 8:52 am |
Which then leads to charges of cherrypicking.
February 10, 2010 at 12:32 pm |
I have to admit that I find the dualist/Gnostic interpretation of things answers The Question of Evil better than standard apologetics (in my sketchily educated mind at least…born of two bit internet philosophy )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ndkz7HTjc8
but…again…says who? A bitterly inconsistent book? Your vague “feelings in my heart”? A few scrolls of uncertain origin that sound a little “nicer” to modern ears? What is the definitive proof for the Gnostic viewpoint?
February 10, 2010 at 12:34 pm |
“Not particularly religious
interested
spiritual
Are you testing me Satan?”
“We’re back.”
“Who?”
“The unaccountably twisted and horrible persons who are unaccountably still vicars”
February 10, 2010 at 9:07 pm |
@Baconsdud,
Let me give you a few reasons at why I see the scriptures as truth… For new testament alone we have over 5000 original language manuscripts. With Aristotle we have (any one work) to be 7. In with he new testament the number of years between composition and oldest copy 90 years max. Aristotle (1400 years). Dead Sea Scrolls (founded in 1947-56, Qumran, Israel) it Provided our oldest copies of almost all books of the old testament. The House of David inscriptions (founded in 1993-94 Tel Dan Israel). It is the earliest mention outside the Bible of King David, whom some scholars have held to be a fictional character. Seal of Baruch (found in the early-mid 1970s Jerusalem) Contains the phrase “belonging to Beruch son of Neriah,” Jeremiah’s scribe it is 6th Century BC. And the list goes on of findings that back up the scriptures… Not only this I believe them to be true.
On to ” God is good” Are you sure of this? Doesn’t the bible say god created all good and evil? statement that was made. God created all and he said it was good or very good. Now let us talk about evil. Evil came into being when satan decided to rebel against God’s authority. See God never created evil Satan made the choice causing evil. Did God create evil no. Do evil things happen and Bad things happen yes.
Once again thanks for letting us post comments.
February 10, 2010 at 9:33 pm |
If a story is repeated, it becomes true? If these texts were so eternally important, why didn’t Jesus try writing his own Gospel? I’m to take the word of anonymous Jewish men that likely never Jesus?
Proving a man named Jesus actually existed is one thing. Proving he was a god in a man’s body requires you to remove every bit of your common sense.
Shawn needs to read his Bible:
Isaiah 45:7
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”
Joshua 23:15
“But just as every good promise of the LORD your God has come true, so the LORD will bring on you all the evil he has threatened, until he has destroyed you from this good land he has given you.”
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
“For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned”
Romans 9:18
“Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.”
The fact that you quote, “It is good or very good” from the ridiculous book of Genesis makes your argument pointless. The same book claims snakes originally had legs and could talk, that women have painful childbirth because a Eve ate a piece of fruit, the earth is 6,000 years old … and God said this creation was very good.
I try not to base my life on absurd fairy tales written by primitive men.
February 11, 2010 at 4:08 am |
Need the citation for this 5000 copies.
You seem to forget that thousands of documents were destroyed by christians when they destroyed all those libraries. It is easy to understand why so many documents from a religion that has been know to destroy anything that isn’t of its religion would have more copies available. Of course all those that come to power try to destroy what they feel will challenge their rule.
Yeah I have heard about the House of David thing but it seems you haven’t done much research on it. If I understand it correctly it could mean what you want it to but most historians say that it isn’t enough to say one way or the other. Some say it could just mean that some guy named David was high ranking but not a leader.
I will need independent citations on all these so called claims of support for the bible. When I have gone looking I only find people making extremely large leaps to make them fit the bible.
February 11, 2010 at 8:23 am |
Baconsbud asserts without proof:
“You seem to forget that thousands of documents were destroyed by christians when they destroyed all those libraries.”
For someone who is demanding ‘citations’ of others, you don’t seem to hesitate to make up things of your own.
February 11, 2010 at 4:52 pm
Oh do you not know the history of your religion? This is something someone claiming to be a christian should know Joe. If as a christian you don’t know your own religions’ history then you shouldn’t even be trying to make claims. Learn where you religion came from and how it has been used and then we can talk.
February 11, 2010 at 3:09 pm |
Here is a list of books that may help you:
1. Craig Blomber, “The Historical Reliability of the New Testament,” in William Lane Craig,REasonable Faith, (Wheaton:Crossway, 1994)
2. Norman Geisler, Christian Apologetics, (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1976)
3. Gary Harbermas, The Historical Jesus (Joplin, MO: College Press, 1996)
4. Walter C. Kaiser Jr., “Top 15 Finds from Biblical Archaelogy,” Contact, Winter 2006-2006.
5. The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel
6. Josh McDowell, Evidence that Demands a Verdict, (San Bernadino: Here’s life 1972,1979)
Check these books out.
February 11, 2010 at 5:07 pm
I won’t waste my time on anything Craig has written since most of it has already been debunked by many different people. There are a couple of these I am going to check into but from the little I have read of a few reviews it sounds about the same.
February 11, 2010 at 9:15 am |
For new testament alone we have over 5000 original language manuscripts. With Aristotle we have (any one work) to be 7. In with he new testament the number of years between composition and oldest copy 90 years max. Aristotle (1400 years).
Why your comparison is pointless: No one claims Aristotle is a magical being, born of a virgin, who rose from the dead. The writings of Aristotle are prized for their philosophical content, not for supernatural claims about their author. BTW, the works of Aristotle also contain many of his errors about science, no one denies that these are errors. I.e. I do not have to stretch my imagination to accept that Aristotle, a human being, actually existed.
Also, if you have 5000 or even a million original language manuscripts claiming that you can breed animals with stripes by putting sticks near their watering trough, that still does not make it true.
February 10, 2010 at 11:39 pm |
@Beattitude,
What do you base you life on? I know if we continue on this we will most likely agree to disagree. But i am still saying that scripture is truth.
Lets start with Isaiah 45:7
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” — The Hebrew word for “evil” is translated as disaster or it represents natural calamity as well as moral evil. God, in His perfection, does nothing morally evil. But, since all events are subject to His control, He is ultimately responsible for all events in history and nature. Moral evil derives from the choices of human and angels.
Joshua 23:15
This is the reminiscent of the curse ceremony of Duet. 28 Joshua warned the people that disobedience would bring disaster and dispossession for Israel. The Lord was faithful to bless obedience and curse disobedience. If Israel repeated the Canaanites’ sins of idolatry, she would experience the same consequence: removal from the land. The entire section of Joshua 23:1-24:24 parallels the book of Deuteronomy, Moses’ “farewell address,” as a ceremony of the renewal of the covenant. It contains the same elements: a rehearsals of the Lord’s deeds in delivering His people (24:2-13); the people’s pledge of loyalty (24:14-26); the reference to witnesses (24:22;27); mention of the laws of the covenant, “a statute and ordinance” (24:25); and the sanction of judgment to come if Israel abrogates the covenant (23:12-16). The order differs, but all the components are present.
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
“For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned” On the basis of verse 11, God is sometimes charged with deceiving people. Let us start with only two verses before the ones you posted: “The coming of the lawless one is based on Satan’s working, with all kinds of false miracles, signs, and wonders, and with every unrighteous deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth in order to be saved..” With verse 10 sets the critical context: “they perish did not accept the love of the truth… for this reason” they experiences delusion. As in Romans 1:24-25 (“God delivered them over… They exchanged the truth of God for a lie”), so here: The delusions certain people experience reflect God’s response to a prior decision on their part.
Romans 9:18
“Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.” In this verse we need to look at the first 17 verses of the passage and then also the following as well. We find out that in this chapter starts out as a break down of to different kind of election God chooses. First dealing with God’s election of the nation Israel to achieve certain tasks (also why God chose individuals— the patriarchs and Pharaoh., v 17) and with the second being the election to salvation. To be in the later group requires faith in Christ. v. 14″What should we say then? Is there injustice with God? Absolutely not!” God predetermined the general outcomes, either wrath or glory but the saved or the destroyed determine their own fate (in response to God’s initiating grace). In the this view the criterion for inclusion or exclusion in “My-people” is whether sinners pursue righteousness by faith or in self-reliance (v.32;10:3-4,9-10). That is, those destroyed prepared themselves for their destruction. People are predestined to condemnation so long as they choose to continue in their ways and resist God’s grace.
The scriptures that you presented all deal with disobedience against God and what happens when this occurs.
thanks for allowing me to comment and everyone else as well.
February 11, 2010 at 8:07 pm |
You assume belief in an invisible deity is necessary to have a fulfilling life. It’s not.
Belief in an invisible god that promises eternal life gives some people hope. But this is little more than false hope based in a lie. This superstition is not only unnecessary, but a huge waste of time. If this god is “truth” and wants me to worship him, he should have given humanity more than an erroneous and poorly documented book to learn about him. It paints the picture of a very small man-made god.
Only 30% of the earth agrees with you. As time goes on, fewer and fewer people will continue to worship this god. I’d rather be honest than pacify myself with a theology so absurd.
February 12, 2010 at 12:49 am |
Really… Fewer and Fewer people. 30%… you see this as a small amount? This is around 2 billion people in the world. Why in countries Like China is Christianity Exploding? It is fine with me if you do not believe. I am sorry that you do believe, it really does make me sad. Really…poorly documented? Show how the bible has been poorly documented. You really think it to be absurd? What has brought you to this? I am honestly curious. I have given you, in just a short amount of time (threw the different post made), proof and even gave different examples of books to check out, that help with proof of scripture and its validity, Some stats and even explained some scripture that was taken out of context.
I honestly have enjoyed what we have been discussing. I really appreciate that you search the scriptures out. I pray that you keep searching out the scripture, dont ever stop. But i wonder what has brought you to the point of complete denial…
thank you for letting me have this discussion with you on here.
February 12, 2010 at 8:53 am |
We’ll start with absurd:
• Talking snakes
• A man living in a whale’s belly for 3 days
• The sun and moon stopping in the sky
• A mountain top high enough to view all the nations of the world
• Epilepsy caused by demon possession
• Rape victims being killed for not screaming loud enough for help. Or having the victim’s father paid money and then forced to marry their rapist.
• God’s repeated commandment of genocide including the slaughter of innocent babies. Only virgins were kept as sexual pillage.
• A world flood that covered the highest mountaintop.
• The murder of every firstborn son in Egypt because the king was stubborn
• The ordered slaughter of 3,000 people for worshiping a golden calf
• Cursing 42 children to be mauled by bears for calling Elisha “baldhead”
This list would be going for a mile, so instead I’ll give you links to several of my posts on biblical absurdities:
How is God any different than Adolf Hitler?
Bible vulgarity.
Slavery, Rape, Murder and Prostitution. All good things.
The multiple personality disorder of Jesus.
God sacrificed himself to himself?
God is Pro-Abortion.
God’s acts like the men who invented him.
Kill non-believers.
Upon Jesus’ Return: Slaughter, rape, baby killing, cannibalism, poisonous waterways and fireballs from the sky. Woo Hoo Jesus! Welcome back!
The Bible has been poorly documented because it is little more than hearsay
The men who wrote the Gospels are anonymous. It is nearly impossible that they even met the man named Jesus. The author of Mark would have been around 75, the authors of Matthew and Luke would have been around 90, and the author of John would have been over 100 years old if they were written by Jesus’ disciples. Yet these authors give exact quotes and tell the story as though they witnessed it the day before. Not to mention the many conflicts from one Gospel to the next. These texts would not even be allowed in a court of law as evidence to prove anything. They are anonymous hearsay and unworthy of any credibility.
The Old Testament is garbage. The mistreatment of women, slavery, genocide, and animal sacrifices. Laws that command the murder of disobedient children, the murder of homosexuals, and the murder of non believers of this god.
This book is nothing more than folklore, and false testimony about a god that was invented by primitive men. The biblical morality Christians love talk about is not exclusive to this religion. I am no less moral today than I was as a believer. I just no longer feel obligated to ask invisible people for forgiveness when I make mistakes.
February 13, 2010 at 1:03 pm |
Will you please give references or citations to “The Bible has been poorly documented because it is little more than hearsay” section… Just curious at what resources you are reading.
Thanks again for allowing me to comment.
February 12, 2010 at 9:49 am |
[...] from a former Christian. By theBEattitude I had a recent comment from poster “Shawn“: I really appreciate that you search the scriptures out. I pray that you keep searching out [...]